First things first…

The firearm death comparison is of course bogus. The numbers may be right, but comparing the death rate of US soldiers in one place with the death rate of the total population in another place is misleading. so you either take the number for the whole population in Iraq or the number dead soldiers in Washington D.C.

One can only hope that Dollard is not serious with this, because if this is the quality of his arguments, it clearly speaks against him.

Clearly the statistic got under your Chicken Little skin ( Chicken Little because you don’t have the guts to admit your obvious anti-Americanism and anti-Bush obsession, because if you did, it would give the lie to your pose as a rational analyst of America’s overall defense against Islamic Fascist Imperialism and the Iraq theater in particular ), because you made a reactionary’s intellectually empty response - the statistical comparison between mortal dangers posed to a civilian living in D.C. and that of a member of the American Military in Iraq, stands. It is nothing short of Orwellian for you to insist that I can’t count only the number of combat deaths among servicemen in Iraq, and instead must count those of the entire population. Your response was entirely gibberish, in fact. I have every right to compare the firearm deathrates of everyone living in D.C. with the aforementioned deathrate in Iraq. You are unable to prove otherwise, which is why you could only use the vague rhetorical term “misleading”, and support it with tortured logic, instead of flatly declaring “He has no right to compare the deathrates of the two groups”. I have every right, and I just did. You are merely a self-appointed Nurse Ratched ( “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” ) working to protect the average man from intellecutal deficiences you love to imagine, in order to prop up your egomania and desire for control. It is this very role of The Anointed, with the motto: “We are the Anointed and We Know Better”, that is the ultimate rationale for the entire liberal powerstructure. If socities were to function on the concept of regulation being a last-resort necessity against crime, so as not to impede the natural ecosystems of free societies and free markets, then Liberalism would founder on the rocks of it’s own hubris. Instead, Liberals are the champions of protecting everyone from the scary concept of real freedom - free societies, and free markets. Now Morlock wants to regulate the poor, stupid common man from the free marketplace of ideas. If he doesn’t like an idea but can’t argue it false, he’ll instead pull a Big Brother and label it “misleading” and try to prop up his malapropism with phony, sleight of hand logic. My comparison was simple and clear - I left the reader to make his own analysis of it. You panicked at the notion that people might be allowed to think for themselves, and went at a bizarro, non-sensical counter argument, buttressed with the usual Liberal “nyeah, nyeah, nyuh, nyeah, nyeah” ad hominems. Read below for a better version of some.

Your incessant, Big Brother doublespeak, in essence, “Weakness is Strength” and “Defeat is Victory” has spoken against you from Day One. ( “Let Me Suck The Enemy’s Cock Whenever I Can” seems to be another favorite of yours. And apparently suitable since you clearly are repelled by any masculine instinct - hence your constant feminine approach to all of society’s challenges. To you Government is some sort of Big Mother, protecting everyone from the scary natural world of men functioning freely, and indeed encouraging the weak to remain weak and under Big Mother’s protections. ) Your positions are always in sync with a man quite afraid to function like a man ( yes, Morlock, as socio-politcally inconvenient as it is to weak men such as yourself, there are differences between men and women, and it is your natural duty to act in accordance with the design of the former, not the latter ) and certainly afraid to fight, in a literal manner. Argue from the shadows under a false “non-socialist, non-America hating” persona, maybe; fight, no.

Morlock, you are a Leftist seeking the final revelation of your dreams of Leftist power. Your positions on Iraq and elsewhere are ass-backed in in support of your partisan ideology, and are devoid of all true rational analyis. You are a party hack looking to validate everything you’ve stood for all your life, too afraid to suck it up, chink at your own ego, and lose your social cache, by opening your mind to free thought, and the possible admission that you and your kind have been wrong all these years. And worse, that you are no more than the brainwashed remnants of a dying international socialist revolution. A pawn-victim in a game played by much more powerful, influential, and relevant men.

Also Morlock, how is this not an ok estimate? For arguments sake lets do the calculation your way.

54,000 Iraqi Civilian Deaths. This number is from;

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17310383/

your media so don’t question it.

now that is for the entire war, from invasion to present. that is March 2003 to February 2007 or 48 months.

((54000(Iraqi)+3100(US))/((160000(US)+26,783,000(Iraqi))/48months)*(100,000
persons)

Iraq = 4.42 violent deaths per 100,000persons per month.

Now the Washington DC number of 80.6 per month…. I am not sure on this one.

I wasn’t able to find a “gun deaths” number, but murders are about 45 per 100,000 per YEAR in DC.

I don’t think these statistics quite hold up under greater scrutiny. The DC number is probably a yearly number, the 60 per 100000 troop number is monthly.

However, the point Pat is making is still valid; 3000 deaths in almost 4 years is a ridiculously low fatality rate to have people in the US “war weary”. This is the safest war we have ever fought, and more and more of the activities are being handled by Iraqi’s while US deaths drop every week as we implement Bush’s plan more and more. This new plan will work, it is working, and it has to work, we can’t pull out now. The only thing that will cause it to fail is lack of funding from the ‘crats… krauts

If the number breakdown is as you said, then the statistics I gave don’t add up as a serious statistical comparison. The value of the post is then reduced to the broader, looser point you ascribed to it, as well it’s intrinsic humor. It serves only as an entertaining catalyst for thought not as a serious measure.

However, Morlock’s underlying thesis, that only the ratio of military deaths per overall deaths in each location is a valid comparison, is still meritless. In fact, to make that point only underlines my initial point: ( had the stats been correct ) that it is safer to be a member of the military in Iraq than a member of the almost entirely civilian population of D.C. The essence of the point was it’s irony. To insist that comparing the two groups was invalid was both to miss that irony and to engage in inappropriate “thought policing”.

Speaking as someone who just signed his ass over to Uncle Sam, looking forward to being deployed to Iraq, I’ve got a few thoughts about this matter.

Something strange happened to me physically last December; I think it was a reaction to cleaning fumes and exhaustion (I’d been moving out of an apartment and working double shifts all week). In any case, nothing like this has every happened to me before or since. On my way out back to smoke a ciggie before I went to bed, I felt really dizzy, went limp, and did a nice face plant on the floor. I was conscious, entirely numb, my ears were ringing, I could barely talk–I wondered if this was a stroke, a heart-attack, anuerism, etc.–and I thought very clearly, lying there on the floor, that I might be cashing my check. And I thought, “well, alright then.”

Since then, I do not fear death. And if I did, I’d be much more scared of having a job delivering pizzas than I would taking fire in Iraq. I put my trust in statistics, rather than liberal friends of mine talking about how someone they know has died. (Maybe they’re telling the truth, maybe not.)

And what if the odds were good that I would die in Iraq? I would gladly go anyway, because I believe that our mission there is bigger than my life. Over 618,000 men died in the Civil War; I’m really glad Lincoln didn’t redeploy the troops to fight in Sandusky, Ohio. Or when Army Rangers dropped in behind enemy lines on D-Day, fulling expecting 80% casualties, to clear the way for our boys on the beach. And thank God those men had the courage to go forward with that mission.

I am minimizing no one’s sacrifice by asking “If it only took 3,218 deaths over four years to send America running with its balls tucked behind its ass this time, how many troops will it take the next time? 1000? 500?”

I volunteered to go. So all the liberals like Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan can go drink urine. Step off of our dicks, please; there’s work to be done, and as Ronald Reagan once said, “If not us, who? If not now, when?”

I believe in a free and peaceful Iraq. But make no mistake: this war is about fighting the terrorists over there so we don’t have to fight them over here. The goal is preventing terrorists from using a nuclear weapon on America. It ain’t gonna be Jack Bauer going after Gredenko that will save your ass.

I’m 24 years old, by the way. Not all recruits have thought about all this as much as I have. (Before we swore in, we were all twice reminded that in joining the Armed Services, we might go into combat and could die.) I am sick of policy makers talking about lives being wasted (*cough*McCain*cough*), when they’ve already gone all in on America losing in Iraq.

I am sure going to Iraq is going to suck. It’s my job to embrace that suck.

Anybody know where that photograph is on the internets?

I’ve dealt with the death thing by assuming that this is my last couple years of life, I fully expect to go to Iraq and die. I just accept it, if I live I will enjoy life on the other side. I had to get this through my head to make my decision. I don’t think about it much now, doesn’t help keep the spirits high, but in the back of my head I expect to die over there, and make my decisions now as if this is the case.

Little correction.

It will help to quit smoking. I cut a full minute off my two mile time in less than three weeks after I quit.

I am impressed with your counter point to morlock. Its interesting to note that you are from a leftist Hollywoood scene, who left wealth to live and suffer with our soldiers and marines in Iraq. You accepted no pay , yet served your country admirably even taking a bullet(Ied actually)You speak with the soldiers and marines like your one of them, yet you can wax poetic and show a very intelligent side in your writing and arguments. The liberals must be so P.O.’d that you ignored them so they must rally behind idiot cowards like michael moore. Not only is your documentary as study of contrasts so is your life story.

fascinating.

peace

I’d flat out give her the finger if I were to shake hands with her.

Pat-This website rocks- I’m telling everyone I know about it!

the photograph you are thinking of, with US soldiers extending their middle finger, was of US soldiers in captivity of the North Koreans after a US ship, the Pueblo, was seized.

Pat Dollard,

I love you, man

How about this statistic.
Allies vs. NAZI KRAUT BASTARDS
57,200 KIA / 23,019 KIA
173,000 WIA or missing / 67,060 WIA 198,000 missing…

Thats just over two months of combat.

HARDEN THE FUCK UP. You libs only exasperate the situation. Appeasers provided the Fascist with the time conquer Europe, and fortify Normandy. They were finally ignored with the FIT hit the shan in Hawaii… By then it was too late. You fuckstains cost more lives than you save.

The only reason the U.S. military is in Iraq– they’re doing the bidding of a neoconservative cabal who’s in cahoots with multi-billion dollar defense contractors and oil companies. These companies would like the enrich themselves. And they’re using OUR tax money to do it.

Can’t wait till 2008 when we throw the rest of the bums out.

LOL…now that’s funny. By the time the ‘08 elections get here, the PEOPLE will be so fed up with the Dumb-O-Crats that they will be swept from power once again. I hope you enjoy the following 8 years under the Republicans. The party of the SANE!

your response to Morlock made my day!

Dollard 08!!!!!!!

again an idiot downplaying the capabilities of the muslims. I guess we have to wait for more than 4 planes to attack us before some people will wake up to the threat. you are obviously not a student of islamic history are you. The muslims are trying to get weapons of mass destruction so that they can kill more people without lifting a finger. this makes the little guy very very big and very very dangerous. I am glad you feel so secure despite the the long history of muslim attacks on the weest. are you aware of the fact that we first fought the muslims in north africa when they were seizing ships , killing crew and enslaving survivors. Our second president choose to pay ransom and appease, but jefferson decided to fight and won our freedom. jeffer\son had asked why the muslims were attacking us we had never any connection with them before and the Amir said, muhammed commanded us to fight all unbeliever until they pay us tribute, or convert. the killing of unbelievers is a duty for all muslims agaisnt those who do not submit to those 2 dictums.

the only conspirascy idiots like you dont buy are the real ones like this. Islam wishes to convert the world, kill unbelievers or exact special taxes and steal their wealth. that is the history of muslim conquest, that exceeded the strength and connections of any american politician.

get a grip!

Think and Morlock have GOT to be fuckin trolls. Nobody can be that fucked up in the head to actually contemplate that there is ONE fucking honest muslim in the world.

I spent my time in the sandbox during Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm. Fuck, even our muslim allies were wary of helping. Only reason they helped was because they could further their own agendas. We kicked the Republican Guard out of Kuwait in 100 fuckin hours. Think about that!

Needless to say, we should have fucking learned from cowtowing to the UN back then that we would be fucked if we did it now, yet the libs still think that dickbags like Harry Reed, John ‘Traitor’ Murtha, and Nancy ‘Bad Facelift’ Pelosi have valid points. Usurp this country and its Constitution at will, fuck the people.

I got bad news libs, try destroying this country and it will be more of a civil war at home than that which you claim is happening in Iraq.

We few that have the balls to be PROFESSIONAL soldiers truely understand that which is our fight. We are fighting the muslim pieces of shit where they live, so that they don’t come fuck up YOUR martini parties and Paris Hilton worship hour.

Take Pelosi, Murtha, Reed, and the entire fuckin bunch and form your own pacifist ville on an island somewhere. Let true Americans protect and defend America. Defeatist assholes, the whole lot…