Pat Dollard | Young Americans

On the subject of there being no war on terror. If the dhimmicrats have their way, there won’t be.

Ohh no! the world is comming to an end! We’ll all be dead soon! your car is putting out more fumes and you’re killing the environment more than ever!
When did this happen? lol
and the idiots who spout this crap are flying around in private jets. what a bunch of crackpots. The same people also say that methane gas put out by cows is killing the atmosphere. lol:roll:

Dear Pat,

You are so right. America’s left are not liberals. A keystone of true liberalism is that the expression of opinions from both sides of all issues should be encouraged.

Today’s American socialists like Germany’s socialists (of the 1930s) despise the concept of free expression of ideas.

The word NAZI of course is a contraction of the German phrase “The National Socialist party“.

A couple of months ago America’s leftists held a conference to try and find a way to “return free speech” to America’s radio stations. Don’t you love the way that leftists always use Orwellian New Speak to try and hide the truth.

Now you have added your voice to those trying to get the truth out.

They will despise you for it. But in the end we will win. Because as Bill Bennett told me, “They have their right to their opinions. But they don’t have the right to change the facts.”

Point well made,
Doctavian

This is why I homeschool my kids. I cannot trust the public school system to educate my children. They were enrolled in public school for a few years–we tried…. I am still having to “deprogram” some of the ideology that is instilled in our children from kindergarten all the way through college. I do not fear my children being exposed to different view points–no matter how radical–at a college level. My hope is by that point they will be mature and secure enough in their own beliefs and knowledge to not be swayed by thinly veiled attempts at indoctrination. Five-year olds, however, don’t stand a chance. And that is where it is starting. There are so many topics that cannot be discussed due to political correctedness. I had a first grade teacher approach me with fear and concern for her job…she tried to explain her mistake to me. I suppose it was an attempt to keep me from going to the principal and endangering her job. Her infraction? My son had found a book about Noah’s ark sticking out of her personal book bag and read it. She almost cried when I said “We’re Christians don’t worry”. She was that relieved…….. Yet daily our kids are bombarded with evolution, “cultural sensitivity”, alternative lifestyles, global warming..and a myriad of other topics on the Left’s agenda. My 6 year old son was spouting off the rhetoric about global warming and how I shouldn’t drive my big Suburban. We should carpool or take public transportation—he said. I’m not kidding….First of all we live in the sticks–due to Army relocation— second I have 5 boys…no one is carpooling with us….. lol Then I asked all of them about dinosaurs and mammoths–their favorite topic. “Mammoths lived when? Ahh.. during the Ice Age. And why are they not here today? Ummm…because the world heated up, the ice melted and they couldn’t survive. And how many SUV’s were being driven around at the time? See my point? Now get in the truck…”
As far as self-indoctrination–that starts early too. Video games, TV, computers—our youth is addicted to the glowing screen. People wonder why ADD is rampant–people wonder why kids take guns to school and experiment with drugs. People wonder what’s wrong with kids these days. The problem is they are being raised by electronic machines. Everyone can afford an electronic nanny. While not imparting morals or an ability to practice a free thought process, these modern Mary Poppins have figured out how to make the sugar of the Left’s propoganda go down very easily. American’s are gobbling it up.
I am concerned about what this nation will be like when my kids are grown. My husband (a hard-core soldier through and through) talks of moving to another country within the next few years–Belize or the Phillipines. I don’t know if we will…however, I think it is tragic that our country’s atmosphere has become so toxic that a soldier who has spent his life defending this nation no longer feels like he can raise his kids here. It is like a dysfunctional relationship–when you love someone but they aren’t good for you. He loves this country but it’s not good for us any longer. Sad… he is putting his life on the line every day for our country. Yet, when he lays down after a day of defending our nation, he dreams of taking his family away–someplace quiet, someplace safe, someplace besides here where the clamor of the Left’s incessant propoganda is becoming stifling.

Add Oprah winfrey to the list of “sheep” who were moved by the “inconvenient lie” by self proclaimed scientist al gore. Please tell me people, if all this science is true , why hasnt al gore brought all these alleged scientists with him to give credibility to his story? I dont see politicians lining up to refute him but actual climatologists in europe and the US.

but when they do refute it Al gore says they are being paid by big bad corporations with a vested interest in people using oil and coal and other CO2 pollutants.

Yet fascist leftist seems to not see the link between Al Gore and the companies now listed as selling carbon credits. One of the companies is owned and operated by al gore himself, so inevitably he is buying these offsets, for his majorly polluting house in tennesee, from himself. Why what a humanitarian! Since it is all said and done in the leftist mindset, I guess we will never see climatologist argue this on TV.

what a concept! but no we would rather see self proclaimed prophets of global warming, who have no training or expertise in the sciences, spout off.

Incidentally you know what moved oprah winfrey the most, the same thing that moved little children who have been forced to watch thise tripe in their schools; seeing the helpless(animated)polar bears drowning. They coldnt get one picture of a drowning polar bear so they used animation instead. I thought Oprah had a brain. I used to respect her, but I think she needs to retire.

Am I dreaming this, Pat? Am I just dreaming that the left, no longer content to heckle the war on terror from the sidelines, has begun to say, “there is no war on terror?”

This recruit MUST be dreaming. They can’t be serious. They CANNOT be serious! A belated April Fool’s joke, surely.

(Excuse me while I cause some global warming [farts loudly].) Ahh.

I will never leave my country because of liberal fucksticks; I will, however, live in the most hick red state there is in the most backward, non-progressive town I can find.

I have friends who refuse to “take sides,” such as my best buddy Jerusalem (USAF recruit). He doesn’t yet understand that once you comprehend Conservatism and what it means, it informs every part of your life–from not giving a shit about global warming, to not cheating on your wife, to having the common sense to pass judgement on crap. I’ll lend him Mark Steyn’s America Alone, it’ll help him out. He’s a conservative, but he doesn’t realize it yet.

We live in a culture where we create pubescent sex symbols and then enjoy the spectacle of them falling to pieces seven years later (Spears). Where the height of female power (being a porn star) has taken its toll so much that Jenna Jamieson’s vagina has been worn to the point of needing reconstructive surgery (and that gets fucked up.) Where the most famous gold-digger in history is on the news every hour for months, a mother having killed herself with pills–another pornography contributor.

And yet the mantra rolls on: get your seven year old thongs so she doesn’t have to suffer panty lines, teach the kindergarten class how to put a condom on, and teach high school girls that using their tits and vag is using their “power.” [Barf!]

Even Christian private schools that I attended were anything but a Christian experience for me. Somehow, I turned out allright, but a lot of kids I know didn’t. Here’s an idea: let’s make it taboo for girls under the age of 18 to wear a bikini. No good can come of it!

Save that bottle of Pinot Vagin for marriage!

Outrage
No GWOT … No Long war
Outrage
National Pahriah
Outrage
Mike Wallace “President Tom” is really a nice guy” - just wants to talk….
(while Tom he turns the knife in our backs)
Outrage
GB caputulates to “Pres Tom”
Outrage
Democrat Charlie Rengel admits to wasting, buying votes, acting to send message only, vows to repeat same, admits this is the Dem plan etc.
Outrage Outrwage Outrage

Evan Sayet expertly sums it up. In the Democrat Faschist world there is no right or wrong, no standard no rational basis for argument. The only “right view” is full agreement with them. No room for alternative views. No intelligence other than them. There are no facts other than their own concensus. If you don’t agree with them your a denyer and must be punished with smear, trial, and destruction of your livelyhood. All denyer are intellectually deficient, will never get it, and need to be beaten down till they have nothing left to fight with.

The Faschists will oppose any network we try to develop - look at the fairness doctrine. The only half-ass mostly-ineffective network we have and they want to destroy it by making every group that opposes talk radio views get equal time to air thier views (without being commpensated for use of the time by the way).

When that day comes I fear my own actions!

THE EASTER BUNNY IS SICK OF LEFTIST BULLSHIT, AND HE’S NOT TAKING IT ANYMORE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPb0po2jzfg

There has to be a way to visually show the people of America who they really are (the Dems & Liberal Media - the Faschists)! There has to be an easy to understand and quick way! A method that strings every wrong action of the Dems & MSM together so that anyone viewing it can see it clearly. I can’t even find the recent voting history of my own Senator. I get frustrated and give up. I have no way to hold these traitors accountable for any of thier actions. They act under a vail that obscures and then accuse the conservatives of conspiracies and secrecy as they do it.

In the business world they use a tool called data mining to pull tons of information from massive databases to track behaviors or trends. Its a tool that enables a business to see exactly whats going on.

By the way, I’m watching South Park I DVR’d last night. They’re really excoriating Bill Donahue, and it’s long overdue.

Action is needed, with the upcoming elections, we can peacefully take the fascists out of leadership roles. Hopefully clear minded individuals will actually vote this time, staying home on the last election to prove a point has turned out well hasn’t it? We must win by a large margin also, if the votes are close the elections will be brought into court and the ideology of a judge will determine the ‘will of the people’.
Fight against the use of computer voting machines, their results are easily manipulated and will turn the govt over to the fascists, I favor hand marked ballots and a purple finger of pride. The hippies have to go.

If this cannot happen peacefully We the People of the United States, in order to reform a more perfect union will have to act by any means necessary.

Freedom is worth any required sacrifice, for a life in bondage is not a life worth living.

Maybe a little off topic here…

But doesn’t the left realize that appeasing the jihadi’s will not lead to a “global utopia” (as pointed out by evan sayet?

Sure…Osama has smartened up since 9/11 and realized that the left’s policies are better for him…so if he had the choice he’d kill Republicans one day…& maybe kill the Dems 2 or 3 days later?

How can they be so ignorant to think that they can appease the jihadi’s?

Matt-

listen to john lennon’s “imagine” again and again and again, then you will realize a peaceful utopia can be here if you just imagine it so.

I’m not sure the jihadi’s have listened to it though, that’s ok, you just keep imagining.

They are disillusioned hippies who will realize their errors only when the blade begins to cleave the flesh on their necks.

Kipp, with all do respect you are so wrong. Look deeper than what your political party tell you to think. Independently research and go deeper, at least 30 yrs in regards to the changes in the middle east. You should go back further but that is a good start. Check out this site, and consider the information and not a quick dismissal. You should realize this war is part of a global effort for a systemic solution, to go beyond the termination of the immediate offenders. This action, if successfull will save millions. If the Nazi’s were stopped earlier the over 60 million dead in WWII could have possibly been in the thousands. I preached against Reagan earlier in my life, and the evil of James
Watt etc, but then after several years of hearing the leftist tell tales and seeing a different reality I came to reason. Give it some deep open thought.

http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/published/pentagonsnewmap.htm

Kipp - Wow, you have been fully indoctrinated by the MSM. This very site you post on shows you the truth about what is really going on. Why do you choose to ignore the evidence right in front of you and continue to believe the filtered and spoon-fed “information” from the MSM? Do you really think we can fully understand what is going on in the world in twenty-two minutes of evening news? You should also try listening to Rush Limbaugh and stay away from Err America.

Al Qaeda didn’t attack the US prior to September 11, 2001? The 1993 WTC attack and the USS Cole, both under Clinton, are just two recent examples. You are in step with the left trying to blame the US for everything and bring defeat to the US. The terrorists existed before we did anything in Iraq. There are now fewer of them because they have been killed. If the left had done the exact same thing, CNN and the NYT would be trumpeting all of the great things going on in Iraq. You are probably just another drive-by poster and will never return to this site to read what others post to counter your “observations”. It’s always easier to remain safe in your belief instead of questioning it and trying to find out if it is the truth.

Kipp: You’re attempt to be rational just proves your brainwashed. There is no rational thought in what you said. All you know is Tear down what is good.

The only productive endeavor you engage in is to raise up that which is evil - that’s you. Ultimately, all you can achieve is to make evil as respected as, or more so, good.

There is absolutely nothing you can say that makes your position rational, and there is nothing you can show that is positive in the Leftist arena.

You will fail to succeed in your sheep like following of the Left. You can’t stand any one who is principled in right & wrong. I will pray for you!

The left fails (or, more likely refuses) to realize that Heaven forbid, their “solution” to THE WAR ON TERROR were ever to be adopted as U.S. policy the jihadists would follow our warriors home and it would be these self-same bastions of good will (the facists among us) who would be blindfolded, bound,and feel (briefly) the blade as their heads are lopped off. Why some have such a hard time accepting the fact that there is, indeed, evil in the world boggles the mind. You cannot reason with our enemy and all of the John Lennon bullshit, wishful thinking won’t change that.
Simple analogy; I live in a rural area. If a stray dog or wild animal shows up on my property acting aggresive toward me and/or my family, I don’t think “Gee, maybe if I feed this poor creature and provide some Vet. medicine, I can make it like me and live with it in peace and harmony!” Nope, I don’t thnk that at all, I realize it’s a lost cause and shoot the sonofabitch. End of rant.

Thanks very much for your responses. I would like to tell all of you that I read this site almost everyday. It is true, I am leftist, but I’m not radical left. I have read military history almost exclusively since I was 12. I am not one of those crazy leftist radicals that believes in appeasement. War is necessary in many instances. I have not posted in here because Pat says he will not let leftist postings stand. But maybe out of respectful dialogue, and I will keep my postings respectful, I can insert a point of view that may be different than many that come here see in someone from the left.

I am very familiar with the Middle East. I spent two years in the mountains of Yemen. I was the only Westerner in the village I lived in and as a teacher I was surrounded by Arabs who made up most of the nations in the Middle East. Many of my fellow teachers were Palestinian. I travelled for a month with a former special forces soldier from Israel. My understanding of the region is much different than most people. I speak Arabic and have conversations frequently with Arabs living in the US. I would like to take the time to address some of your responses.

I addressed the fact that I am not a driveby (nice RL reference) to this site.

If we wanted a “systemic solution” to the immediate offenders we should have sent 150,000 of our finest to Afghanistan and then invaded Pakistan until OBL and his base are dead.

It seems that so many people want to make the Nazi reference in regards to fighting Islamic extremists. There really is no connection except that both are Conservative regimes. Al-Qaeda is more like piracy. Even their most dispicable act (9-11) was an act of piracy. I’m just stunned that those who back this so called War on Terror rarely mention Saudi Arabia. Our beloved ally not only bred most of the culprits on 9/11 but also continues to sponsor Madrassas throughout the Muslim world without much attention from those who boast the most about this war.

Rumsfeld47 above says that by my theory we should attack Saudi Arabia and I say we had more a justification for attacking SA than Iraq.

Greg above says there are fewer terrorist because of our attack. I beg to differ. For every person we kill in Iraq we create a host of people that never hated us that now do. As you know Iraq is a tribal country and tribal loyalties spread way beyond just the traditional nuclear families.

About Saddam funding terrorists attacking Israel. Since when do we make it our business in defending Israel. If this is the case than Israel can go to war with Iraq. They already had justification from the First Gulf War to do so.

“By overthrowing him we have uncapped the cork on militant Islam in Iraq…” That must be why the majority of jihadis in Iraq are from foreign countries, with foreign bombs and foreign financing… “…and emboldened and empowered Iran.” This must be a belated April Fools joke.

The very same Jihadis that didn’t exist there before. The very Jihadis that SH would not allow to assurp his authority in Iraq.

You’re wrong about Saddam, you might want to read a book before you start spewing garbage out of your ass like that. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Saddam was Saddam; he allied himself with whoever he thought would help him the most at the time, and that included Islamic terrorists; of course, Saddam was always a “devout muslim,” sometimes more than others.

Saddam was anything but a devout muslim. He did anything to maintain power but his sadistic power trip was a check on Iran. A vacuum we now are forced to provide.

Daniel…I promise to read your link. I don’t have time now but will later on.

Viking…There is evil in the Muslim world. These people that do such acts should be killed, eradicated from the earth but the war in Iraq has created a lawless petrie dish for them to carry out such evil.

Finally I leave you with something to ponder. When we fought our war using insergent tactics (Revolutionary War) we had a most able commander (Washington) and visionary leftist leaders (Jefferson, Madison, Adams…) Name one Iraqi military leader who will transform Iraq as we leave. Who is their Washington? Who is there Jefferson, Madison or Monroe? I am sure that no one on this site can give me one name. Until we see such leaders in Iraq, this war will never succeed. Even the most ardent military commanders admit that this war cannot be won militarily.

Thanks for the opportunity to post,

Kipp

Iacobus wrote;
“And you’re kidding me about the comparison to Washington, right? “Visionary leftist leaders?” Give me a break. I hardly think Madison, Jefferson and Adams would find anything remotely similar to *your* side, *especially* in regards to an actual moral compass, which your side lacks in spades.”

VERY well said Iacobus.

Funny, I cannot seem to remember which of our founding “leftists” championed the “America sucks/America’s always wrong/let’s all hold hands and sing” bullshit.

Kipp,
Americans in Iraq brings the jihadist too Iraq. True. And it keeps them out of America. I’d rather have our soldiers fight our wars than our civilians.

Iraq was a check on Iran. Also true. However, Saddam was a piece of shit who deserved to die. We’re doing Iraq a favor. Furthermore, if we leave Iraq now, Iran will simply move in. We’re the world police, or havn’t you watched Team America? So let’s do our job and kick the shit out of the bad guys.

Military victory in Iraq: We may not get a spectacular military victory in Iraq, but we have the ability to turn over a country that has a fighting chance. If we leave now, millions will die in a religious civil war. The survivors will hate us for leaving them, and we’ll have another militant Muslim nation, full of recruitable jihadis to deal with.

Lack of leadership in Iraq: NO SHIT. Why do you think we’re still there? There’s no leadership in Iraq because Saddam ensured all his political rivals were shot. Are you suggesting we leave Iraq leaderless? Should we let Iran move in, massacre the Sunni’s and watch a Civil War live on CNN? George Washington and Jefferson arn’t going to be born of this war. Iraq is going to survive with the Michael Collins’s and the Eamon de Valera’s. But if we leave now, what chance do these types of people have of coming to the surface?

Sorry for the double post (double speak, get it?), I wanted to break my reply to Kipp from this post.

Pat, you hit the nail on the head. I’m not quite convinced enough to call them Fascists (for lack of a nationalist spirit, I truly believe the Left hates America), but we are deffinitely dealing with a radically polarized group. Socialist Democratic Party? SDP.. NSDP? And dammit you’re right to stop calling them liberal. I consider myself a Liberal in the truest sense of the word:
“of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.”
-dictionary.com

What scares me is the brainwashing element. Leftist education is raising a bunch of 20-something age morons. Look at the Yale kids burning the flag today. WTF! Punk-ass kids have everything because someone sacrificed for them and that’s how they repay it.

The Left praises the notion of “political correctness” while they secretly tear down facets of the nation and the Constitution. We’re at a crossroads, and I sincerely pray that the Dems lack of policy will destory itself.

Greetings:

I worked for a very VERY I MEAN VERY Liberal organization called Nature’s Classroom. Entire staff from this outdoor ed program would go to anti war marches in NYC…

…but when they came back I noticed a change. Many of my fellow staffmembers were stunned by what they learned once in the streets.

We need, in this country, a defining moment. The World Trade Centers was like that noise we hear in the dark and we don’t know what it was but we are considering getting out of bed and looking. The Liberal media was telling us to stay in bed, it was nothing…

What we need is to understand, to be slammed in the face with reality.

FDR tried everything to get us into WWII. From what I read he realized that the German War Machine would not stop at the outer buoys marking the entrance to the Thames. He realized what was going on but most Americans didn’t…

…until Pearl Harbor.

I say…let’s vote for Hilary. We need a swift kick in the ass or we’re going to be like that frog in the stainless steel jacuzzi…ah, this is nice…

Iraq is too far away for most Americans.
Or maybe, we need the military to start bringing civilians on patrol…yeah, that would do it!

Whatever and however we get it, we need a dose of reality as a nation.

What say you?

Tim Roesch
apostate in training
Command Private Major - retired

Kipp, you’re not worth responding to, you slimy fuckstick.

I’m getting ready for mini-boot camp this Friday and Saturday! Hoo-rah!

No doubt my asshole will be sucking buttermilk.

Hi Kip
I’m sorry to break this to you, but you’re unable to make a rational argument because you have no basis in facts. Primarily because you’re not right with yourself. Somewhere along the way you learned to redefine right and wrong in such a way that – in the moment - you are never wrong with yourself. You change the principles minute by minute to suit the circumstances so that your view is the only view. While you do self-contradict over longer periods of time, you’re OK with that because – again – you adjust the principles to the circumstances —- for you, that is acceptable. Proven in your reply and true to modern liberalism you have to tear others down to feel good about yourself.

Rummy is right (minus the #!*#$ ) – you’re not worth the time IF my objective is to debate on facts or principles. However, I do hold out hope for you, hence the reason I take the time.

I hold out hope because I believe you serve three purposes:
1- To demonstrate that there is no rational basis to debate on because Modern Liberalism does not have a standard or fixed set of principles.
2- To demonstrate how dangerous liberalism & MSM really is.
3- To one day act as a follower when the conservatives re-teach you to– like way back in your childhood – to accept right and wrong and live for fixed principles.

One thing I guarantee: You can argue your “points” all you want and claim, your reading and intelligence all you want. But you waste and ignore your god given talents because you lack results. THE BOTTOM LINE IS RESULTS, AND THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NO RESULTS - unless you want to call tearing down what is good a result! I just don’t get it….. With all your claimed smarts you choose to be a liberal? With all your smarts you choose to support democrats? Irrational!

Kindly,
J

Kipp,
You raise some valid points. Lest we forget “Come the hour, come the man”. Just one example of excellent Iraqi leadership from today…… found at the Opinion Journal.
(quote)For years, the tribes had supported the insurgents who claimed to be waging jihad. Now, citing the same religion, a tribe wanted to switch sides. Col. Mohammed, the battalion commander, accepted the offer. “The irhabi (terrorists) call themselves martyrs. They are liars,” he said. “I lost a soldier and when I pulled off his armor, there was the blood of a martyr.”
With Iraqi soldiers and Marines providing protection, the sheik and his tribesmen rolled through town, pointing at various men. The sweep netted 30 insurgents, including “Abu Muslim,” who was wanted for the murder of a jundi (Iraqi soldier). “He was just standing there waving at us with all the others,” one jundi said during the minor celebration at the detention facility.(end quote)

There are and will be many more Iraqi leaders coming to the fore and taking on the enemy in Iraq. Read Michael Yon he has mentioned quite a few over the past couple of years.

Von Clauswitz opined that war is a battle of will between commanders.

We will only lose this historic fight if we undermine the resolve of our leaders and Allies. This seems to be forgotten by the Left. Their actions and attitudes would see the US not only lose but withdraw to an isolationist stance and so imperil the entire Western Free World in the face of an unrelenting and vicious enemy.

We must be ever strong. War is hideously difficult and monstrously ugly but we must maintain our spirit or we will surely perish. We are at war in Iraq like it or not and we are drawing the enemy on to a battlefield of our own choosing…another fundamental of conducting a successful campaign. Oh, and we are winning, let’s get that straight and the vast majority of Iraqis support us.

We need to rally behind the President and our Allies and present a united front against our enemies. This the way forward, this is the way to succeed. Think WW2 and maintain a strong offensive spirit.

Mate you are more than half way to being a decent neocon. Keep questioning but never lose faith in your Country, your people or your duty. That’s the spirit that won the war.

God bless you Yanks.

Forever Allies.

Just a Digger.

For Kipp,

The labels and definitions we often use to describe political ideologies and/or social movements are not cast in stone. Such ‘labels’ can mean quite different things depending on what period of human history one is concerned with. Trying to refute someone else’s ‘analogy’ by quibbling over the ‘meaning’ of a particular label is, in fact, relying on a oversimplified ‘cast-in-stone’ interpretation of its’ meaning.

My very-brief ‘analogy’ with past struggles is thus: Israel is our modern version of Czechoslovakia - it would be just as deplorable to abandon them (the Israelis) now as it was to abandon the Czechs all those years ago. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan equates well with our past ‘evil’ ally the Soviet Union - we certainly can’t take on ‘everyone’ that conspires against us all at once. It is, in point of fact, a very long list of corrupt and oppressive regimes.

If I were you I would read the essay found at the link I previously provided:

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2006-10-29-1.html

…before I commented here again.

For fuck’s sake I forgot to add.
God bless you Pat Dollard.
You are a bloody legend mate and a tremendous fighter for right over wrong. No wonder the enemies of truth and decency detest you and seek to belittle you.
Keep up the good fight mate, stay strong, stay focussed.
The ancient Ronam Legions when they marched to war bore a banner proclaiming that respect is greater than love.
You Sir, have my respect and in the fullness of time your Nation will come to understand just how important your work is to the pursuit of freedom and right….albeit with plenty of fucking swearing!
Well done that man.
Take care.
Justadigger.

That’s right Rummy, you have to get beyond words longer than four letters to step up to intelligent dialogue. I do wish you and your brothers great success, though. Everyday I hope I am wrong about Iraq because I know the suffering these people have been subjected to for so long. I just don’t believe they have it in them as a people to rise to the occasion.

Iacubus:

Invasion/liberation…it really is a matter of semantics isn’t it? You are totally wrong however about freedom of speech. People can’t even cross into ethnic neighborhoods that they don’t belong. There is a mini version of ethnic cleansing that is happening despite the American presence.

“If I knew another country was coming to help my people out of the dark hole of oppression I’d be more than willing to stick it out, even it means I died in the process.”

I would be willing to take up arms against my oppressors if it happened in America I agree with you, but this is where Americans miss the mark everytime. Most Iraqis are not willing to assist the Americans. I have talked to dozens of veterans of the Iraq war and the one thing that is common among them is they say the Iraqis are two faced. They will say something to their face that is pleasant and then turn around and assist the insurgents. Even those in the army that are on our side can’t always be trusted. It is common practice for raids to be carried out along side the Iraqi soldiers and the Iraqis don’t have any idea where the raid is to take place because they can’t be trusted. These are our allies.

I am not a “johnny come lately” when it comes to the war in Iraq. I would tell anyone that listened prior to the invasion what would ensue. I have been dead on. It has drained our resources in what should have been our aim, to ram a pole up OBL’s ass. We should be using our military prowess to root out Al-Qaida in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We needed to make an example of them to show you don’t jack with us.

I would like you to explain how Iraq is a moderately functioning country. Mexico is a moderately functioning country in my mind. There are just a few countries in the world that function at a lower level than Iraq. Somalia comes to mind, Sierra Leone comes to mind. Moderately functioning…that is a good one.

The problem I have is not one supporter of the war can explain what success looks like in Iraq using only 150,000 US troops. America will never be able to solve the Sunni Shia divide. Heck the best news we have heard in sometime has come recently when the Sunni Sheiks of Al Anbar are now waging war against Al Qaida in Iraq. That is the Iraqi equivilent of black on black crime c:lol:

You do really need to study more history though. The American Revolution was born out of the Enlightenment and the Enlightenment was purely a liberal movement. I know it pains you Conservatives but sometimes the truth is painful. The whole issue of taxes in the war really didn’t work into your thesis. Once we got our Independence the new government got the majority of its revenue from tariffs and land sales, not direct taxation. If you want to have a discussion with me you better come with the M1A1 Abrams not the Whippet tank.

Again, I ask. Name one Iraqi leader who has the intellect or vigor that any American founding father had in our Revolution. Who has the fortitude to take the reigns in our absence? No one can answer this question. Until it is answered there is no hope of success in Iraq. It may be the Americans who have created the clay in Iraq, it is the Iraqis who must mold it.

Kipp

“Doctavian

Dear Pat,

You are so right. America’s left are not liberals. A keystone of true liberalism is that the expression of opinions from both sides of all issues should be encouraged.

Today’s American socialists like Germany’s socialists (of the 1930s) despise the concept of free expression of ideas.

The word NAZI of course is a contraction of the German phrase “The National Socialist party“.

A couple of months ago America’s leftists held a conference to try and find a way to “return free speech” to America’s radio stations. Don’t you love the way that leftists always use Orwellian New Speak to try and hide the truth.

Now you have added your voice to those trying to get the truth out.

They will despise you for it. But in the end we will win. Because as Bill Bennett told me, “They have their right to their opinions. But they don’t have the right to change the facts.”

Point well made,
Doctavian”

Doctavian, please do not smear the perfectly good national socialist party by comparing them with our democrats of today (just a little humor, they did plenty of bad). But just imagine terrorism vs. Nazi’s, oh that would be a fun one to watch. It would never happen, they would probably have done like Pershing, wash the bullets in pigs blood and bury the terrorists with pig entrails, no more 70 virgins in paradise.

Destroyer666:

Hmmm…I guess Satan is your co-pilot.
“Your background indicates a lot. Including perhaps, youthful exposure to strong anti-American propaganda and bias. If you’re going to lay claim to some special legitimacy due to direct exposure to Arab culture, then you’re going to have to lay claim to the clear possibility of that as well.”

Actally, I upheld the wonders of America in my contact with the Arabs. At every turn they tried to convert me to Islam which I avoided. The religion is a bit too strict for my tastes. I was even offered a choice of one father’s eight daughters if I converted. You need a strong will there, huh?

It is amazing how even the far right, like the far left reduces itself to name calling and labeling when making an argument. I simply let my intellect do the talking. Most Arabs I came across had great admiration for America. This was in 1988-90. Most wanted to come here and live. Bush is doing his damnest to ruin that feeling. If you don’t think the Arab mind has changed collectively in its view of America in the past six years you are living in a dream world. The problem is not as much the invasion of Iraq as this administrations inability to carry it out. If you have even moderately been keeping up with the war you are some kind of sycophant if you don’t recognize the utter incompetance in which these guys have initiated this war.

The whole Saudi thing? It was Saudis that flew the planes into the WTC. You are aware whether you are talking about the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, or the WTC attack you are dealing with Sunnis, right? The “other” countries you are saying I left out would be what? Syria. I’m sorry I left out Syria.

You say I equate piracy to a “criminal act”. We have gone to war over such Muslim “criminal acts” before you know. (see war against the Barbary Pirates circa 18th-19th centuries).

I do not hate Israel. But it is high time they stand on their own. In doing so they may just make decisions that better reflect the desires of their people. Outside of a nuclear exchange Israel isn’t going anywhere and they have thwarted nations seeking nuclear weapons before, right. Besides, if a nation uses nuclear weapons in the Middle East you can pretty much say that the world will change on that day.

Why would you assert that I wish for Arabs to hate us. I in fact wish the opposite. Why would I want anyone to hate the nation I so deeply love and served.

What you so neglect is the fact this administration has responded to the 9-11 attacks in an irrational manner. The problem may be bigger than Al Qaida but killing OBL would have been a hell of a statement that we mean business.

What frustrates you is I don’t speak like your stereotypical Liberal. The fact that I come to this site frequently and fully read what Pat has to say, and agree with some of it should be enough to cause you to pause. The fact that I have had four veterans of the Iraq War come into my classroom to speak about their experiences should cause you to pause. The fact that I don’t confine myself to the far left mantra should cause you to pause.

I have spent hours reading the posts on this site and thought it was time that someone who has a different view on how this war should be fought other than the suicidal nature we are currently waging it would create dialogue. I was correct.

Everyone should remember what Kipp said about his past, and part of the reason he says we should listen to him, rather than draw our own conclusions.

“I spent two years in the mountains of Yemen. I was the only Westerner in the village I lived in and as a teacher I was surrounded by Arabs who made up most of the nations in the Middle East. Many of my fellow teachers were Palestinian.”

Though he does say he spent a month with a former Israeli special ops type, it sounds as though his two years in Yemen and his time with the Palestinian teachers influenced him more than his time with the Israeli.

There is a not-so-subtle hint of the dictator’s double-speak in his rhetoric. This country is so bad, not only can we not save it, it isn’t worth saving in the first place. The people are backward, hateful, deceitful, and unsalvageable. So go back, U.S., go back and sit in front of your idiot-boxes and playstations and forget about Iraq. Let it all go straight to Hell.

Well darn, Kipp, since that ol’ Muslim fellow offered you one of his dear daughters you can’t be all THAT bad!

This is what we get when Michael Moore’s legions take over the Congress. Some conservatives decided they didn’t think that Republicans were conservative enough, so they decided to boycott the election. While the Republicans weren’t perfect, they still knew that the war must be recognized and supported. Well if the DNC hasn’t invited the entire Islamic terrorist network into America by ‘08, for a ‘dialog’ on world peace, we gotta throw them out with a resounding tally. If the sheeple elect Hillary, Obama, or any other member of the jackass party, we’re in deep shit.

Liberals are fucked if there’s a civil war. Their “enlightened” ideology ( feminine nature? ) keeps them from getting guns. So we’re fully amed, and they aren’t. Go ahead bitches, keep making our day

TJ,

Great post. This is the kind of dialogue I seek. No name calling. You even have me pegged. I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Yemen. I partied with many a jarhead in Sana’a.

I have said what Bush has intended to do is a Liberal policy. Many of my liberal friends think I am nuts but it is true.

About the Quran, like the Bible evil men can call quotes to serve their purpose and we know there are plenty of bad guys in the Islamic World. The Quran also says the Christians are the closest in love to Muslims and the Jews are farthest away. This is the quote I chose to use as I made my way through Yemeni society. It always worked like a charm.

I found that traveling through the Islamic world the true moderates were few and far between. In a crisis area like Iraq, the conflict breeds radicals not moderates. This is why the war without true local moderate leadership is a lost cause.

“In fact george Bush, and the neo cons are far more liberal than the ideology of islam is or ever has been.”

This simply proves my point. I whole heartedly agree with you. Many on the liberal side call Bush evil. That is false. Al-Qaeda is evil. The big problem I have with Bush is he did not understand the enemy. This is not a man who sat down and read the history of Iraq while he was pondering war. This was not a man who brought in Iraqis to the Oval Office and sat down with them for hours discussing their modern history. It’s a shame.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=phTAaSs-Ryk

Just viewed the above site you mentioned on Youtube. Love what he is saying. He is dead on but don’t you feel he is shouting in the wind. Do you think most MPs speak up like he does? I doubt it. If Iraqis felt the way he does then Cheney would have been right. I would be chomping on candy right now. It kills me we throw so much money into Iraq and we have so little to show from it. It bothers me greatly when vets say they can’t trust the Iraqi soldiers they go into battle with.

You also mentioned Kurdish leaders. Well Kurdistan really doesn’t care what the Arabs in Iraq do. Their whole outlook is “stay down there and kill each other, just leave us alone”. You know that. Those Kurds, and there is not a lot of them, who are part of the current surge really don’t want to be there. Many don’t speak Arabic very well and their hearts aren’t in it.

“This war includes every muslim country and every muslim. what we have done is forced the hand of moderate or liberal muslims to confront the demons of Islam that they have long since tried to suppress.”

In reality, the incompetance of the Bush leadership in Iraq has driven more Muslims to despise us and what we stand for. If he would have fought the war properly from the beginning things could have been very different.

It’s a shame.

Kipp - “In reality, the incompetance of the Bush leadership in Iraq has driven more Muslims to despise us and what we stand for. If he would have fought the war properly from the beginning things could have been very different.”

It always goes back to being Bush’s fault. If some of these people, any of them, hated us before Bush got in office is that still Bush’s fault? They did, and they attacked. I will remind you, again, of the 1993 WTC attack and the USS Cole. Both of these attacks were under Clinton.

The last part I do agree with. We should have gone in there with guns blazing and locked everyone down. We should have never put handcuffs on our troops so they could do their job. Hell, I think we would be a lot further along if political bullshit wouldn’t get in the way like the left making sure we treat them like they are our equals. They are not. We keep abiding by the Geneva Convention and they chop off heads and show it on CNN.

Every day on the MSM we hear about how many troops died, how many of our helicopters were shot down and by who but they NEVER say anything about what the other side’s casualties are or what good we are doing. Just tonight on NBC Nightly News they had to stress how thinly stretched the US military is. If that is not emboldening the enemy I don’t know what is.

If the Democrats get back in the White House in the next election, I promise you the MSM will start talking about how great things are and all of the “postive impact” they are making despite Bush’s “failed tactics”.