CNN: It Will Be A Disaster If U.S. Follows Dem Plan And Leaves Iraq Too Early
• Experts paint bleak picture of Iraq if U.S. troops withdraw
• Among potential scenarios: al Qaeda terror hub and larger regional conflict
• CNN analyst: “Saudi Arabia will not allow increasing Iranian dominance”
• U.S. general says early pullout would cause “huge vacuum”
(CNN) — Pulling U.S. forces from Iraq could trigger catastrophe, CNN analysts and other observers warn, affecting not just Iraq but its neighbors in the Middle East, with far-reaching global implications.
Sectarian violence could erupt on a scale never seen before in Iraq if coalition troops leave before Iraq’s security forces are ready. Supporters of al Qaeda could develop an international hub of terror from which to threaten the West. And the likely civil war could draw countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran into a broader conflict.
President Bush vetoed a war spending bill Tuesday precisely because the Democrat-led Congress required the first U.S. combat troops to be withdrawn by October 1 with a goal of a complete pullout six months later.
Bush said such a deadline would be irresponsible and both sides are now working on new proposals — which may have no pullout dates.
A rapid withdrawal of all U.S. troops would hurt America’s image and hand al Qaeda and other terror groups a propaganda victory that the United States is only a “paper tiger,” CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen said.
“It would also play into their strategy, which is to create a mini-state somewhere in the Middle East where they can reorganize along the lines of what they did in Afghanistan in the late ’90s,” Bergen told CNN.com.
It was in Afghanistan where Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda allied with the Taliban, and were allowed to run terror bases and plan the September 11, 2001 attacks against the United States.
Bergen says it is imperative that the United States not let that happen in Iraq.
“What we must prevent is central/western Iraq [from] becoming a Sunni militant state that threatens our interests directly as an international terror hub,” he said.
Don Shepperd, a retired Air Force major-general and military analyst for CNN, agreed that Sunni Muslim fighters who support al Qaeda would seek an enclave inside a lawless Iraq likely riven along sectarian lines into Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish regions.
There would be “increasing attempts by terrorists to establish a training sanctuary in Iraq,” Shepperd said.
That’s one of the reasons why a fast withdrawal will not happen, whatever the politicians say, the analysts predict. (Watch why a radical Shiite cleric wants U.S. troops out )
“Everyone wants the troops home — the Iraqis, the U.S., the world — but no one wants a precipitous withdrawal that produces a civil war, a bloodbath, nor a wider war in an unstable Mideast,” Shepperd said, adding that the image of the United States was important too.
“And we do not want a U.S that is perceived as having been badly defeated in the global war on terror or as an unreliable future ally or coalition partner.”
Shepperd, a veteran fighter pilot of the Vietnam War, has served as a CNN analyst of the Iraq war since it began. Bergen was one of the first Western journalists to ever meet with bin Laden, and is considered a leading authority on al Qaeda.
Shepperd: Oil sector could suffer
Shepperd said Iraq’s neighbors would be drawn into the all-out civil war likely if U.S. forces left too quickly. Iran could move in to further strengthen its influence in southern Iraq; Turkey likely would move against the Kurds in the north; and Saudi Arabia would be inclined to take action to protect Sunnis in western Iraq, he said.
The oil sector could also get hit hard, with Iran potentially mining the Persian Gulf and attempting to close the Straits of Hormuz, putting a stranglehold on oil flow, Shepperd says.
“Oil prices would skyrocket,” he said — perhaps soaring from current prices of about $60 a barrel to more than $100 a barrel, with consequent rises at the gas pump.
And that could bring further trouble, Shepperd added. “Saudi Arabia will not allow increasing Iranian dominance to endanger its regime and oil economy.”
On top of that, Iran could speed up its nuclear ambitions, causing a “daunting and depressing scenario” of a nuclear arms race in the Middle East with Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt and Turkey trying to get a nuclear bomb, Shepperd says.
Observers such as Jon Alterman, director of the Middle East program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, say a wider Mideast conflict could be avoided.
But Alterman also fears that an Iraq left without U.S. support could turn into a center for international terrorism and a proxy battlefield for regional powers like Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
“All the surrounding countries would think their interests are much better maintained not by directly sending troops but by continuing to send money and weapons to the people fighting that war,” he said.
“In my judgment, it would take decades for such an insurgency to quiet down.”
There are 120,000 Iraq soldiers now classified as trained by the U.S. military in Iraq, along with 135,000 police force members. But the head of the Iraqi ground forces, Gen. Ali Ghiran-Majeed, recently told CNN that some of his soldiers don’t even get paid, and that on any given day one quarter of the force is on vacation.
For U.S. troops on the ground, the idea of withdrawal is vexing.
“I think it would cause a huge vacuum that the enemies of Iraq — enemies of the government — would take advantage of,” said U.S. Brig. Gen. Dana Pittard, the commander of the Iraq Assistance Group.
Staff Sgt. Matthew St. Pierre is one U.S. soldier who’s come to the conclusion the United States cannot win the war, but he says he also fears the consequences of withdrawal.
“We are the buffer right now and when we pull out, the people who support us are going to feel the wrath, and the people who are against us … they’re going to ultimately win. And I think that’s unfortunate,” he said.
That is a prognosis that concerns many, though Shepperd sees a viable solution for Iraq, albeit one with a U.S. presence there for years to come.
“Done properly we should be in Iraq for years, not in a combat [role], but an embedded advisory role,” he said.
Be respectful of others and their opinions. Inflammatory remarks and inane leftist drivel will be deleted. It ain’t about free speech, remember you’re in a private domain. My website, my prerogative.
If you can't handle using your real email address, don't bother posting a comment.
What’s next? You people marching to Hitler youth songs?
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:16 amIch bin ein Berliner?
Noch lieber als ein Liberaler oder Kommie seiend.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:54 amDeath2Chickenhawks-Lawl wut in the hell does that post mean? As for chickenhawks this site has distanced itself from that pretty well… A lot of the posters here either have served or are serving currently (raises hand). Get a life and/or pick up your “bush is hitler” sign and go stand on the street corner for the attention that you love more than anything.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:55 amIt’s about time CNN started reporting the truth about what could happen rather than airing facist propaganda. Where were they months ago when all this started happening?
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:38 am“I am not interested in pacifism as a ‘moral phenomenon’. If Mr Savage and others imagine that one can somehow ‘overcome’ the German army by lying on one’s back, let them go on imagining it, but let them also wonder occasionally whether this is not an illusion due to security, too much money and a simple ignorance of the way in which things actually happen”
- George Orwell
from Pacifism and the War
a great read, featuring this line of reasoning:
“Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist.”
check it out:
http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/pacifism/english/e_patw
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:43 amDeath2Chickenhawks–
Here’s hoping you do a face plant on a big fat dick.
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 amUmmm, yeah, Chickenshit, I ship off for USMC basic training on Monday. You’re looking real smart right now, good to go?
Nasty civilian trash.
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:55 amdeath2chickenhawks,,, does that mean the clintons also,,, the chicken hawks like pelosi/zarquawi have quit making the new hummers for lack of attention,, that means the MARINES have to rely on the clinton era ones,,, and the hopefully the rummy uparmoured ones can hold up til harry/alqueada decides that enuf MARINES have died and will send the money,,,
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:59 amDeath2 is a part of the drive by scene. Throw an accusation with no supportive fact and cruise on. The point here is CNN actually messed up the party (communist of course) line by admitting that the democrats MSM and other liberals are wrong.
Speaking of liberals, I think since they can hardly ever tell the truth about anyone they dislike, we should just refer to them as LIBELS, save a few keystrokes, and still makes the point…
May 3rd, 2007 at 5:29 amI’ve been following this web site for a few weeks and find it one of the better ones as it sounds exactly like the Marines I worked with in Vietnam, 1968 around Hue City. These were CAP Marines that lived in the villages, organized local defense forces, helped slop the hogs etc. It worked back then especially for the local intel and gossip on who is who in the vills and what was next on the enemies agenda in the area.
I recall April Fools day, ‘68, is when I heard LBJ couldn’t hack it and wouldn’t run again, what a “great” model he was for General Giap. I’m sure the troops now would feel the same if the US pulled the same stunt. At least CNN has seen the light on the consequences of a pull out now.
May 3rd, 2007 at 6:02 amThis is good news, but still don’t trust the motives. Is it done to allow the traitor democrats to save face?
If you take notice to the fact that everything the Dems do is based on MSM reporting they will use this CNN report to explain to thier base that they have to back down.
Realize that MSM their “”"intelligence”"” source.
SO… don’t let your guard down. This might only be to redefine troop action as a policing & law enforcement action where troop activity is so restricted that it puts them in more dangerous situations.
Still, its a good thing taht CNN puts up a differing view.
May 3rd, 2007 at 6:49 amdeath to chicken shits,
wasnt pelosi the one dancing with nazis like ASSad and Imanutjob in Iran. You want nazi’s you will find no better. afterall it was the liberals like margaret sanger(founder of planned parenthood) who was ideological with hitler on his plans to create a race of thoroughbreds.
Hitler was a socialist(national socialist), the islamists and pelosi make bush look like the flaming liberal!
Eat shit and die
May 3rd, 2007 at 6:54 amReference the CNN report: NO FUCKING SHIT. I am not the brightest bulb in the room I understood what will happen if we do not take care of business. Sleaze ball gutless wonder socialist fucking lib dems.
May 3rd, 2007 at 6:54 amDeath2Chickenhawks–suffers a wide gap above the shoulders. In addition, the poor scumbag can’t think.
May 3rd, 2007 at 7:13 amOne reason why I like this site, is because it’s not crazy ranting and straight line doctrine. Death2 embodies everything that’s wrong with this country. The name alone bars debate and discourse in its extremely aggressive, then demeaning false pretense “chickenhawk.” That post doesn’t deserve more than the 2 seconds of thought it took for the writer to create.
As for the MSM screw-up. I saw two journalists back from Iraq (maybe some of Pat’s buddies?
)on a CNN excerpt(I’m busted, I watch CNN sometimes) say the exact same thing. Unfortunately, we all know this will all be downplayed. Furthermore, people like our Death2 friends are so tuned-out to reality that they won’t fathom the implications of their “humanitarian” agenda and will write it off as fascist propaganda.
May 3rd, 2007 at 7:24 amHey DickHawk. We would all be marching to Hitler Youth songs today if it weren’t for people like these, over 60 years ago, who understand that you have to stand up against people who want to subjugate and murder you.
May 3rd, 2007 at 7:33 amI’ve noticed a change recently in CNN’s reporting. What do think is the cause for that? I have so much built up hostility towards them that it won’t have me watching them but it is interesting. A new fair and balanced approach?
I see they have that little hottie from Fox Kiran Chetry, over there in the morning now. I wonder how they got her. Maybe they promised that she would not have to spend so much time on her knees?
May 3rd, 2007 at 8:31 amPacifism and War by George Orwell
Pacifism. Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me’.
May 3rd, 2007 at 8:37 amI posted this on another comment stream but I can’t stress the importance. Even I as a Canadian, born and raised, now living in San Diego 8 years now, I grew up on the left, but swung to the right after seeing the moronic left here! I see how its all played in the US political system and media.
The best thing I have seen to counter all of this MSM bull and Democrat stupidity , is sites like these and EVERY SOLDIER possible signing up for Appealforcourage.org . HAS EVERY SOLDIER HERE AND EVERY ONE YOU KNOWN, DONE THIS?? The MSM and Dumocrats need to see MASSIVE numbers in order to pay attention. Drown them out! Appealforcourage.org has no marketing plan like other sites and are still kicking ass in less time! The Dumocrats are speaking for you and its BULL. People like Rosie and others say they know for a fact, their friends serving and all the soldiers want to come home as the Soldiers are saying they don’t know their mission, don’t believe and don’t want to be there because they are getting no where….Rosie also says Soldiers are all poor and uneducated and that’s why they even enlisted in the first place….please everyone shut up that hog and the rest of the dumocrats!
Spread the word more and more and everyone sign up. They’ll get the word to the Senators and the MSM won’t be able to avoid the truth.
The civil war is at home, here at home amongst the left and right, the right is trying to save the left’s asses and freedoms, as usual so they can freely spew their moronic views…so again appealforcourage.org, sign up in large numbers, tell everyone, market it amongst every troop there…
THE MSM can’t ignore the soldiers. You need to fight at home too. The soldiers are the ONLY ones that can win the war within America too. Sorry for the pressure but you all kick ass no matter where you are!! If you all have, then I’m an idiot for something you already know, but I’m doing my best to spread the word everywhere. The site asks for soldiers to sign that they agree to stay and finish the job, and is sent to the Senate. I hope they get a 1000 page novel of signatures!
Tr3Man
May 3rd, 2007 at 9:47 am@Death2Chickenhawks:
Do have anything more to add besides the old, tired “conservatives are Nazis” meme?
I mean, seriously. Be original.
(I realize that’s a tall order for liberals, who value the “common good” over the individual.)
May 3rd, 2007 at 9:58 amNot all mainstream media coverage is negative. I know the readers of this blog are not big fans of San Francisco, being Speaker Pelosi’s hometown and all, but I would like to point out this article from the San Francisco Chronicle that shows the surge and the new strategy in a positive light:
New U.S. troops in one Baghdad area say they’ve already made a difference
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/05/03/MNG5OPJS941.DTL
May 3rd, 2007 at 10:03 amI dunno, I kinda like the hitler youth songs…
I’m ok with marchin to ‘em if you guys are
May 3rd, 2007 at 10:39 amWhat I love about people like chickenfuck is thier ability to point out alll the evils and wrongs of America, our President and our Troops yet their inability to do anything about it…
I highly doubt he’d fight to protect this country against enemies…. I doubt even greater that he could offer any intelligent plans to make this country safer or a better place.
He’d rather hurl verbal bombs and run… kind of like those coward yellow ass terrorists…. hmm makes you think.
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:01 amSteve in NC: Good read on Orwell. Does that mean todays Pacifists are Jihadifists?
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:58 amMan, talk about bizzaro world. Let’s see, April Fools has come and gone. Her thighness hasn’t won the White House yet. What in the hell has CNN been smokin? They mananged to get through a whole article on Iraq without slamming Bush even once? Got to be the broken clock is right twice a day analogy or the Twilight Zone really does exist. Either way, someone at CNN is catching hell from the DNC about right now.
Oh, and what’s got chickenshit’s panties in a wad? I guess the CNN article just blew all chickenshit’s hope of being called back for human shield duty in Iraq some day.
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:04 pmDickhawk, stick to finger painting
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:09 pmrummy, good luck in basics, hope to be right behind you in about 1 year (after i get out of this god damn liberal college shit)
Tanicacid - re jihadifists
next peace, hate bush rally, whatever I can get to I am going to make a poster that says:
“PACIFISM CAN STOP THE KILLING!
when there is no one left to kill…”
with a big peace sign on it, those fools will probably like it till I expose my jihadikiller shirt and start laughing at them.
these guys have some great stuff :
http://www.protestwarrior.com/signs.php?thumb=1
browse the signs
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:24 pmThere is more bullcrap about Iraq, outright exploitation of our boys in Iraq to justify staying in this war and censorship (let me see how long this post lasts) than in all the MSM.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:03 pmconcerned citizen, thanks for the sfgate update. I realize some media do tyry to be objective, but most of media writers are liberals and they cant help but put their 2 cents worth into everything,
maria,
great insight about chickenshit and his type. that is their calling raise hell, get on tv, pretend to care about the poor and oppressed, then go back to living their lives as the capitalists they claim to hate so much.
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:54 pmDear Pat: noticed a lot of profanity lately from people commenting. Can’t you block these?
Aside from this little complaint, your site is inspiring to people who are concerned where our country is heading (socialism)
May 3rd, 2007 at 6:58 pmTed Koppel surprised me also on NPR recently in talking about the Dems painting themselves into a corner, and why we can’t leave Iraq right away….
excerpt:
“The president has no particular incentive to begin substantive troop withdrawals while conditions in Iraq remain this uncertain. There is, first of all, a very real danger that Iraq’s civil war will spill over into the rest of the Persian Gulf interrupting the flow of oil and natural gas. If anything is going to have a disastrous impact on the U.S. economy that would. Both for purely political reasons, the president will also be incline to keep significant U.S. forces in Iraq until the end of his term.
excerpt:
“Even from the purely partisan point of view the Democrats are making a mistake. They should depoliticize the Iraq issue. If anything, they should publicly hope for the success of the president’s policies. If he wins, we all win. We don’t want either our friends or our enemies in Iraq calculating their strategies on the premise of a divided and weakened America.”
Listen to Koppel on NPR:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9946795
Or,read what Rush Limbaugh had to say about it:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_050207/content/01125109.guest.html
Is MSM finally starting to get it?
May 3rd, 2007 at 9:22 pmTJ-
May 4th, 2007 at 5:36 amIt’s nice to be in the company of likeminded individuals…
dr, do you really think we are exploiting the troops? what the heck do you think the libels are doing with their running body count? Oh, I’m sorry, that is to support a liberal view so it is allowed. since the MSM will not give any coverage to positive things being accomplished, this site of Pat’s is one of the few places those of us that ARE supportive can voice our opinions. But then you are probably of the mind that we should not be allowed to do so, since it is not in goose step with the MSM and the anti war liberals. Take the blinders off and have an original thought other than lusting after Rosie and Hillary
May 4th, 2007 at 6:46 amleaving Iraq NOW is right awaw?
It’s been 4 years since Bush landed on air freighter & said “mission accomplished”"
Since then 3,000 Americans dead & 650,000 Iraqis dead.
Saddam did kill several thousand of his own people (many in the 1980’s with the support of Bush 41 & Reagan because we wanted Saddam to oppose Iran -Komeni–at the time ), but far more have died since US invaded Iraq.
Many people dont realize how USA aided Saddam in 1980’s….we are always trying to get this point across.
Still oppression under al Malaki….somewhat better…
May 5th, 2007 at 4:18 pmsecret prisons…torture….?????Abu Ghirab
Why do you keep trying, Denis? Why not just give up?
May 5th, 2007 at 4:50 pmDenise,
May 5th, 2007 at 5:07 pmYou are a dumb shit. Bush did NOT say “mission accomplished” He stated in that speech on the Abe Lincoln, that “this was the end to major combat operations in Iraq” There is a HUGE difference in the two statements.
OT: I visited this site for the first time today. I want to thank all of you men and women who serve in the arm forces for keeping the rest of us safe. I thank God for you. I thank God that I was born in America. I love my country. I hate many of the things that are taking place here, but I love my country. Survival, and the love of the God given gift of life, must triumph over political correctness.
May 5th, 2007 at 6:58 pmDenis said: “Saddam did kill several thousand of his own people (many in the 1980’s with the support of Bush 41 & Reagan because we wanted Saddam to oppose Iran -Komeni–at the time ), but far more have died since US invaded Iraq.
Many people dont realize how USA aided Saddam in 1980’s”
Hey Denis, first, I believe Saddam gased the Kurds in 1988 and it was 50,000-100,000 according to:
“in a deliberate, large-scale campaign called Al-Anfal to kill and displace the predominately Kurdish inhabitants of northern Iraq. In an exhaustive study published in 1994, Human Rights Watch concluded that the 1988 Anfal campaign amounted to an extermination campaign against the Kurds of Iraq, resulting in the deaths of at least 50,000 and perhaps as many as 100,000 persons, many of them women and children.” - http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/iraq/warning.htm
and secondly, the U.S. also aided Stalin and Russia in order to defeat the freakin Nazis! And look how nice Stalin turned out ofter the war.
Your arguements are tired, hole-filled, and easily debunked and countered. Get some new material loser.
May 5th, 2007 at 7:54 pmCNN has turned? It’s all over for the Ds.
Finally, the obvious is being observed. HOW did it take so long?
May 5th, 2007 at 9:08 pmhey denis how many terrorists have been killed in those 4 years and hwo many of the iraqis that were killed were killed by the terrorrists?
dont have those statistics?
20,000 insurgents killed 27,000 captured. Insurgents have killed more than 85% of the iraqis.
of the 15% americans killed, over 10% were military targets.
that 5% civilians killed is due to urban warfare where terrorists hide among the people.
as far as the torture you claim, at least they get to live. the insurgents dont take prisoners.
May 6th, 2007 at 4:52 amDenis:
Get your facts straight.
Dr:
May 7th, 2007 at 6:33 amHow many service men or women do you know, or have you talked to in a civil manner? I’m sure you received a strong vindication of how the right exploits our soldiers when you were protesting baby-killers at the last commi rally.
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September 4th, 2007 at 7:16 am