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	<title>Comments on: Trial Against U.S. Muslim Charity Begins</title>
	<link>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/</link>
	<description>The latest in policital news and the war in Iraq</description>
	<pubDate>Mon,  1 Dec 2008 22:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: A. S. Wise- VA</title>
		<link>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31639</link>
		<author>A. S. Wise- VA</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 05:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31639</guid>
					<description>This is a good step forward.  However, I believe that CAIR and the ACLU must also be scrutinized as well.  They're dangerous front groups, antithetical to our way of life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a good step forward.  However, I believe that CAIR and the ACLU must also be scrutinized as well.  They&#8217;re dangerous front groups, antithetical to our way of life.</p>
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		<title>By: TJ</title>
		<link>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31645</link>
		<author>TJ</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 06:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31645</guid>
					<description>the stupid thing about this is that you could also reign in individual mosques under the same pretense based on admissions by terrrorist orgnizations such as the taliban that they use islamic donations earmarked for the poor(zagat) to fight their war in afghanistan. I read such an admission in an MSM article about the war in afghanistan. The taliban commander mentioned this just off hand and the MSM continued on without even noticing. Why? because when muslims dont want you to know the real meaning of something they use the arabic transliteration rather than english translation. 

this article included is naive to think or suggest that Islamic "charities" should be on the lookout for being used by terrrorists. they know they are being used, it is willing, because lying  "in order to guard yourself" is permitted in the quran. when an organization or the MSM use unfamiliar transliterated words , like zagat, kafir,taqiyya, kitman,nashk,etc , it is for the very reason to conceal their true intentions. therefore, all of islam should be under suspicion, and the MSM will never hold them accountable as longas we continue to separate terrorist groups from mainstream Islamists who support them with their prayers, time and money. they are working together, some unknowingly, but most know exactly whats up. lets stop being so naive, and when you see an unfamiliar reference , do the research or ask the right questions and watch them dodge your question, obfuscate or otherwise lie, it is a way of life in islam!  :sad:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the stupid thing about this is that you could also reign in individual mosques under the same pretense based on admissions by terrrorist orgnizations such as the taliban that they use islamic donations earmarked for the poor(zagat) to fight their war in afghanistan. I read such an admission in an MSM article about the war in afghanistan. The taliban commander mentioned this just off hand and the MSM continued on without even noticing. Why? because when muslims dont want you to know the real meaning of something they use the arabic transliteration rather than english translation. </p>
<p>this article included is naive to think or suggest that Islamic &#8220;charities&#8221; should be on the lookout for being used by terrrorists. they know they are being used, it is willing, because lying  &#8220;in order to guard yourself&#8221; is permitted in the quran. when an organization or the MSM use unfamiliar transliterated words , like zagat, kafir,taqiyya, kitman,nashk,etc , it is for the very reason to conceal their true intentions. therefore, all of islam should be under suspicion, and the MSM will never hold them accountable as longas we continue to separate terrorist groups from mainstream Islamists who support them with their prayers, time and money. they are working together, some unknowingly, but most know exactly whats up. lets stop being so naive, and when you see an unfamiliar reference , do the research or ask the right questions and watch them dodge your question, obfuscate or otherwise lie, it is a way of life in islam!  <img src='http://patdollard.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':sad:' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Dan (The Infidel)</title>
		<link>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31690</link>
		<author>Dan (The Infidel)</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31690</guid>
					<description>There is nothing wrong with charities per se. In our culture feeding the poor, etc is acceptable. But these people have perverted the word and turned it into an excuse to fund murder and mayhem in the jihadi world. 

It is a clever ruse that plays well in the MSM, because the MSM is totally unaware that these underground jihadists are using our freedom and our systems against us.

And the ACLU and like-minded fools are playing this game to the hilt. They are participating in a fraud, because that is what the ACLU is all about. They are wolves in sheeps clothing masquerading as avengers of people who have been slighted by "the man". When in truth all they are is a bunch of self-hating anarchists who could give a damn about freedom and liberty. They are the devils own minions. So of course they'll represent the Jihadis. Birds of a feather...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nothing wrong with charities per se. In our culture feeding the poor, etc is acceptable. But these people have perverted the word and turned it into an excuse to fund murder and mayhem in the jihadi world. </p>
<p>It is a clever ruse that plays well in the MSM, because the MSM is totally unaware that these underground jihadists are using our freedom and our systems against us.</p>
<p>And the ACLU and like-minded fools are playing this game to the hilt. They are participating in a fraud, because that is what the ACLU is all about. They are wolves in sheeps clothing masquerading as avengers of people who have been slighted by &#8220;the man&#8221;. When in truth all they are is a bunch of self-hating anarchists who could give a damn about freedom and liberty. They are the devils own minions. So of course they&#8217;ll represent the Jihadis. Birds of a feather&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Jim Sutter</title>
		<link>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31700</link>
		<author>Rev. Jim Sutter</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31700</guid>
					<description>I have no idea if HLF is guilty or not, I'll wait to see what the trial reveals. What I do know is that the FBI &#38; AUSA (prosecutor) handed them grounds for appeal on a silver platter before the trial even began.  When arguing over what evidence should be presented, the judge reviewed the FBI's claim that they had wiretapped HLF and had many recordings of conversations of them discussing terrorism and sending money to terrorists.  The FBI even provided transcripts of the recordings.  

This rare, sharp judge (maybe considering the FBI's history of playing fast and loose with evidence or maybe it was the FBI's insistence on only presenting the transcripts instead of the tapes) took the extraordinary step of demanding to hear the tapes himself.  Guess what?  Not one single word was on the tapes about terrorism or sending money to terrorists, and the transcripts were complete fabrications.  So the judge has barred the transcripts from being used as evidence, the judge is ticked off at prosecutorial misconduct (the same thing that doomed the Chicago terrorists' trial), and the HLF has a really solid basis for appeal, since the FBI's entire tree of evidence is built on those "transripts".  

In trials, when the cops (or FBI) begin their case with Evidence A, and then from there proceed to Evidence B, C, D, E, F, etc., if Evidence A is found to have been gathered illegally or if it is found to be fatally flawed (like transcripts of tapes where the transcripts make a serious allegation that's not on the tapes), then Evidence B, C, D, etc., can be labeled "fruit of the poisoned tree" and even though B, C,D, etc may be valid, it could (and often is) thrown out. 

When the FBI goes after terrorists, they have GOT TO make sure they do everything "by the book", being factual, not violating rights (wait a minute before you scream), and then the court has to make sure of the same things, so that once the terrorists are convicted, the conviction can hold up through the appeals process!   For example, this is why the judge in the Massuoui (?) judge was so meticulous and exacting in his trial, why it took so long - she made absolutely sure that his conviction would survive appeals.  

Bottom line -- For God's sake, Get The Terrorists!  But do it right, so that they stay in prison, so that the appellate courts don't turn them loose to walk free again in society, to plot more attacks.  Lock them up and do it right so that they never again see freedom !!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea if HLF is guilty or not, I&#8217;ll wait to see what the trial reveals. What I do know is that the FBI &amp; AUSA (prosecutor) handed them grounds for appeal on a silver platter before the trial even began.  When arguing over what evidence should be presented, the judge reviewed the FBI&#8217;s claim that they had wiretapped HLF and had many recordings of conversations of them discussing terrorism and sending money to terrorists.  The FBI even provided transcripts of the recordings.  </p>
<p>This rare, sharp judge (maybe considering the FBI&#8217;s history of playing fast and loose with evidence or maybe it was the FBI&#8217;s insistence on only presenting the transcripts instead of the tapes) took the extraordinary step of demanding to hear the tapes himself.  Guess what?  Not one single word was on the tapes about terrorism or sending money to terrorists, and the transcripts were complete fabrications.  So the judge has barred the transcripts from being used as evidence, the judge is ticked off at prosecutorial misconduct (the same thing that doomed the Chicago terrorists&#8217; trial), and the HLF has a really solid basis for appeal, since the FBI&#8217;s entire tree of evidence is built on those &#8220;transripts&#8221;.  </p>
<p>In trials, when the cops (or FBI) begin their case with Evidence A, and then from there proceed to Evidence B, C, D, E, F, etc., if Evidence A is found to have been gathered illegally or if it is found to be fatally flawed (like transcripts of tapes where the transcripts make a serious allegation that&#8217;s not on the tapes), then Evidence B, C, D, etc., can be labeled &#8220;fruit of the poisoned tree&#8221; and even though B, C,D, etc may be valid, it could (and often is) thrown out. </p>
<p>When the FBI goes after terrorists, they have GOT TO make sure they do everything &#8220;by the book&#8221;, being factual, not violating rights (wait a minute before you scream), and then the court has to make sure of the same things, so that once the terrorists are convicted, the conviction can hold up through the appeals process!   For example, this is why the judge in the Massuoui (?) judge was so meticulous and exacting in his trial, why it took so long - she made absolutely sure that his conviction would survive appeals.  </p>
<p>Bottom line &#8212; For God&#8217;s sake, Get The Terrorists!  But do it right, so that they stay in prison, so that the appellate courts don&#8217;t turn them loose to walk free again in society, to plot more attacks.  Lock them up and do it right so that they never again see freedom !!</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. Jim Sutter</title>
		<link>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31707</link>
		<author>Rev. Jim Sutter</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31707</guid>
					<description>Two other observations - as to the "unindicted co-conspirators" that is so often cited in articles against CAIR (don't know if that was done here or not):  There were allegedly 900 "unindicted co-conspirators" so I'm thinking three possibilities:

1)  For all the talk about this, I've not seen anyone present any documentation that lists the unindicted co-conspirators. I always prefer to see the documentation, it is far more believable than rumors.  

2)  If true, then this could be a reference to those who contributed to HLF, which for years maintained a very respectable reputation.  The contributors may or may not have known of any terrorist-related activities.  When you give to United Way (for example) do you first investigate every charity that United Way funds?  Most people don't.  

3)  If true, and if the unindicted co-conspirators DID know of HLF's sending funds to terrorists (if that is what HLF did), then the AUSA may be waiting to first get a HLF conviction, then building on that conviction, work on indicting the unindicted co-conspirators.  


There are an awful lot of "ifs" here:  IF there really are 900 unindicted co-conspirators; IF HLF was indeed sending money to terrorists; IF HLF can be convicted of that; IF HLF's conviction can withstand appeals; IF the prosecutor (AUSA) can prove that the unindicted co-conspirators knew of HLF's illegal actions; IF the AUSA feels there is enough evidence to bring charges against the co-conspirators; IF the co-conspirators can be found guilty.   It wouldn't be an impossibility, but if any one of those IFs fails, then the co-conspirators are going to remain free and be considered not guilty.  

I'd really like to see this alleged document from the AUSA that says there are 900 unindicted co-conspirators and who they are.  If anyone knows if this document is in the public domain and where to find it, please let me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two other observations - as to the &#8220;unindicted co-conspirators&#8221; that is so often cited in articles against CAIR (don&#8217;t know if that was done here or not):  There were allegedly 900 &#8220;unindicted co-conspirators&#8221; so I&#8217;m thinking three possibilities:</p>
<p>1)  For all the talk about this, I&#8217;ve not seen anyone present any documentation that lists the unindicted co-conspirators. I always prefer to see the documentation, it is far more believable than rumors.  </p>
<p>2)  If true, then this could be a reference to those who contributed to HLF, which for years maintained a very respectable reputation.  The contributors may or may not have known of any terrorist-related activities.  When you give to United Way (for example) do you first investigate every charity that United Way funds?  Most people don&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>3)  If true, and if the unindicted co-conspirators DID know of HLF&#8217;s sending funds to terrorists (if that is what HLF did), then the AUSA may be waiting to first get a HLF conviction, then building on that conviction, work on indicting the unindicted co-conspirators.  </p>
<p>There are an awful lot of &#8220;ifs&#8221; here:  IF there really are 900 unindicted co-conspirators; IF HLF was indeed sending money to terrorists; IF HLF can be convicted of that; IF HLF&#8217;s conviction can withstand appeals; IF the prosecutor (AUSA) can prove that the unindicted co-conspirators knew of HLF&#8217;s illegal actions; IF the AUSA feels there is enough evidence to bring charges against the co-conspirators; IF the co-conspirators can be found guilty.   It wouldn&#8217;t be an impossibility, but if any one of those IFs fails, then the co-conspirators are going to remain free and be considered not guilty.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d really like to see this alleged document from the AUSA that says there are 900 unindicted co-conspirators and who they are.  If anyone knows if this document is in the public domain and where to find it, please let me know.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan (The Infidel)</title>
		<link>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31712</link>
		<author>Dan (The Infidel)</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31712</guid>
					<description>One more thing. This organization isn't about Islam and helping out the poor. This organization is a carefully disguised criminal enterprise and should be treated as such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing. This organization isn&#8217;t about Islam and helping out the poor. This organization is a carefully disguised criminal enterprise and should be treated as such.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan (The Infidel)</title>
		<link>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31798</link>
		<author>Dan (The Infidel)</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 00:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://patdollard.com/2007/07/trial-against-us-muslim-charity-begins/#comment-31798</guid>
					<description>This is all anyone needs to know. Anyone who thinks otherwise of HLF is just plain blind.

From the FBI website:

The Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) is registered as a nonprofit humanitarian organization that has conducted fund-raising activities in the United States. In December 2001 the Department of Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated HLF as a Specially Designated Terrorist (SDT) based on information that HLF provided material support to HAMAS. InfoCom, a computer company and Internet Service Provider closely associated with HLF, is being investigated for providing material support to terrorism and multiple violations of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act for illegal shipments to state sponsors of terrorism. FBI investigation has determined that InfoCom is facilitating the HLF's fund-raising efforts via their computer support and may be assisting HAMAS via covert communications. As a result of a superceding indictment related to the InfoCom investigation, the Dallas Division arrested four suspects who had been indicted for terrorist related charges. Two additional suspects were also indicted, however, they are in fugitive status and remain at large. The four individuals arrested on these charges are expected to go to trial in the immediate future. It is important to note that one of the fugitives is Mousa Marzook, the Deputy Head of the HAMAS Political Bureau and a Specially Designated Terrorist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all anyone needs to know. Anyone who thinks otherwise of HLF is just plain blind.</p>
<p>From the FBI website:</p>
<p>The Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) is registered as a nonprofit humanitarian organization that has conducted fund-raising activities in the United States. In December 2001 the Department of Treasury&#8217;s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated HLF as a Specially Designated Terrorist (SDT) based on information that HLF provided material support to HAMAS. InfoCom, a computer company and Internet Service Provider closely associated with HLF, is being investigated for providing material support to terrorism and multiple violations of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act for illegal shipments to state sponsors of terrorism. FBI investigation has determined that InfoCom is facilitating the HLF&#8217;s fund-raising efforts via their computer support and may be assisting HAMAS via covert communications. As a result of a superceding indictment related to the InfoCom investigation, the Dallas Division arrested four suspects who had been indicted for terrorist related charges. Two additional suspects were also indicted, however, they are in fugitive status and remain at large. The four individuals arrested on these charges are expected to go to trial in the immediate future. It is important to note that one of the fugitives is Mousa Marzook, the Deputy Head of the HAMAS Political Bureau and a Specially Designated Terrorist.</p>
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