Europeans May Cut And Run From Afghanistan
WASHINGTON (AFP) - The United States is worried about weakening Italian and German military commitments in Afghanistan as casualties increase in the fight to stem the bloody Taliban insurgency, officials said.
Debate is raging in Italy and Germany, and to a lesser extent the Netherlands and Denmark, on whether they should remain in the International Security and Assistance Force (ISAF), already grappling with a shortage of troops in the face of one of the most intense military engagements in decades.
“There is a good prospect that we are going to lose some” contributions from certain countries, a US administration official told AFP, as European nations face upcoming votes at home on their reconstruction, military and training commitments in Afghanistan.
The NATO-led 37-nation ISAF and a separate US-led coalition, in total about 50,000 foreign soldiers, are together with Afghan security forces fighting to block the return to power of the Taliban after the hardline Islamic militia was ousted in late 2001.
But with the fighting now at its toughest since then, and more deaths among ISAF forces — including the friendly fire” incident Friday that killed three British soldiers — Washington is deeply worried about eroding support for the effort.
“It will be disappointing if there are fewer NATO partners that are involved in this mission,” the US official said.
“Italy and Germany are the ones that are of serious concern,” the official added, citing Italy as “one that we are really concerned about.”
With 2,500 troops, Italy heads NATO’s Herat-based regional command in western Afghanistan.
Italian Foreign Minister Massimo D’Alema recently blamed a lack of coordination between US and ISAF forces for hundreds of Afghan civilian deaths, which he called “morally unacceptable.”
“The Italians can be proud of what they are doing but at the end of the day it’s not so much a referendum on ‘are we making a difference?’ but really a referendum about how closely do you want to be associated with the US administration,” the US official said.
In Germany, where polls show a strong 64 percent majority calling for withdrawal, parliament would have to vote on whether to continue with commitments for reconstruction, military deployment and training of Afghan forces.
The United States is particularly worried about the military commitment.
“As the issue of civilian casualties becomes more and more an issue in German politics, that is another one that is of real concern,” said the US official.
“And if the concerns are really high, that might spill over into the training of security forces.”
Germany has lost 25 soldiers, three police officers and four civilians in Afghanistan since 2002.
The past month has been particularly grim with the abduction by the Taliban of two German engineers, one of whom was shot dead. The other is reportedly ill and begging for his life.
Germany has contributed some 3,000 troops to the NATO mission and has six Tornado reconnaissance planes helping to spot Taliban hideouts.
About 100 elite troops have a mandate to participate in the US-led anti-Taliban Operation Enduring Freedom but are not currently deployed against insurgents in the south.
In the Netherlands, there is some unease about how long the Afghanistan effort will continue but US officials believe cuts in the military deployment will be spared.
Similar concerns face Denmark but officials say its deployment is not on the US radar screen as one that is really in danger.
Other key countries like Canada and Britain remain committed despite their own losses. On Friday three British soldiers were killed while fighting Taliban forces near Kajaki Dam in Helmand Province after being hit by a bomb dropped by a US fighter jet.
Two other soldiers were injured in the incident. The United States and British military and NATO-led International Security Assistance Force, under which the troops were serving, have all said they will investigate.
The blunder was the latest in a string of “friendly fire” deaths involving US planes in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Kurt Volker, the principal US deputy assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs, is expected to travel to Europe in early September to prod countries to maintain their Afghan presence.
“I think he is going to make some public remarks illustrating how important Afghanistan is and some of the things the European countries can be particularly proud of, in terms of achievements in Afghanistan,” the US official said. “We are hoping that can help.”
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The Europeans can fight the Jihadis wherever they want to. But sooner or later…like it or not…they will have to either ante-up or go buy a burqua or grow a beard.
Better to do that now…rather than later…when it is too late…
August 27th, 2007 at 7:39 amyou would think Europe would want to fight them harder than we do considering they are the ones being overrun by the jihadis in their own countries..Most of these countries already look like little Saudi Arabia, guess they would rather fight them on their own streets
August 27th, 2007 at 7:52 amthe EU states think mostly that staying in Afghanistan for staying there doesn’t lead somewhere, see who get involved there through arms traffics, troops advisers : Iran ! now the biggest deal is to treat Iran and see what can be sort out from that point
August 27th, 2007 at 8:35 amIf the US is so bloody concerned about the other nations staying in, and with those countries citing economic reasons or other BS for possibly pulling out, elt’s give them the economic reason for staying. Many of those countries get financial assistance in one form or another from the US, so if they pull out, we cut the support. Let’s be blunt about it. If you guys want our money, do what we say, period! Why do we let our elected officials continue to pay for and support the liberal socialist countries that depned on our assistance, and let the bastards bad mouth us, and not support us? As sure as Christ made littel green apples, that is the leading cause for the Europeans to have little respect for us
August 27th, 2007 at 9:11 amoh Brady oh brada,
the thing is, EU altogether is richer than the States, and you don’t pay for us
August 27th, 2007 at 9:18 amEurope ha lost their will to fight . I expect Shariah law to be adopted within a couple decades . This time Europe can save themselves .
August 27th, 2007 at 9:44 amFrenchy:
And how many EU states are there contributing to the net worth of the Euro? In America there is only one country contributing to the dollar…and we got several states in the US with a more robust economy than most third world or European States.
So your statement is a “who cares” item. Europeans gave up their identity to support a Euro commonwealth. Collective economics has not changed European unemployment rates one iota.
On the other hand the US economy remains robust and has unemployment rate of statistical zero.
And yet despite our robust economy we still contribute lots of money to European causes.
It is readily apparent to all of us in here that the United States has had a long relationship with a wife (Europe) that has been unfaithful at times. And it has caused the relationship to spend more time in counseling, than in “wedded bliss”. And yet we still remain married, because divorce is not yet an option.
August 27th, 2007 at 10:28 amFrance the retour, first, it is the UNITED STATES, not the “states”.
So then Mr. Deep Pockets, how much does the United States contribute to the European Union’s Defense? Bottom line, you NEED the United States more than we need you.
I look forward to the first EU country to fall to Radical Islam, maybe it will wake the others up.
August 27th, 2007 at 10:54 amDan, this a discourse for last century ; you can’t keep EU alike a god-child, always recall her who is the god-father ; think of talking to grown-ups and you’ll see relations will improve
I was referring to the GDP produce, (I haven’t got the numbers right now, but I saw them quite a while ago)
Anyway, in the G8, how many EU countries ?
http://www.armees.com/Nicolas-Sarkozy-defend-l-Europe-et-l-amitie-avec-les-Etats-Unis,24504.html
here is a Sarko approch of your army problem in Afghanistan, seems we are not going to let you down, but increase some kind of help
August 27th, 2007 at 11:05 amEdith Tampa sorry for mispelling the name of your big country
to which state are you thinking ? Poland ? Tchequie ? people there don’t want your missiles umbrella !
I am sure you didn’t think to France anyway
I can guess your kindness to advocate that the radical islam fall over EU ;
I am sorry for you that will be be not in France, already in control
August 27th, 2007 at 12:17 pmoops, I forgot to put that link :
http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2373621
August 27th, 2007 at 12:18 pmWTF are you talking about frog-boy? You don’t a very good grasp of the English language at all. Your arrogance is typical Parisian, although I still think you are a Belgan or perhaps one of those snotty punk-ass Paris waiters that overcharges the tourists because they do not speak French with a Parisian accent.
In any event, once again, you are an idiot. But what can one expect from a graduate of the elistist leftist schools in France?
Let’s all give fog-boy a hardy French salute shall we? All right everyone raise both hands high up in the air and say in your best French “J’abandonne”. (Loose translation I give up) LOL
Go back and wait on your customer’s tables froggy. Yo Garcon…more wine….
August 27th, 2007 at 2:38 pmOne can’t expect much from the EU. A better quality of soldier can be found in EU SOF’s and in the old Eastern bloc.
The Eastern bloc soldiers just need Western combat experience. The Poles were an excellent ally in WWII, very tough…very motivated. The elitist soft-ass attitudes that the rest of the EU seems possed by have yet to infect the Eastern societies.
So I wouldn’t spend a whole lot of time worrying about the pussy-asses in the EU. They’re going to have to fight the Islamofacists on their own soil…very soon…
And some already are doing just that. Britain is one example. France had those riots. I’d be interesting to see how the new President of France would handle another large Muslim riot. Would he be a pussy like Chirac? Or will he do what many cops want….send in the Army and flush out the leaders and the perps.
Denmark and the rest of the EU are also facing opposition from large Muslim enclaves. Can a war be far behind? Maybe.
But sooner or later Europe will have to get off it’s wine and cheese eating asses and fight. Otherwise the EU will just be one big Muslim suburb.
If the EU is that far gone…then fuck em. We don’t need them. It takes something like 8 countries to make up the EU. That’s 8 county’s combined resources to make the Euro what it is. When we have just one country to make our dollar what it is.
People knock the dollar and yet our economy remains robust. Unemployment is low. The Stock Market has almost doubled in value since 2000…the deficit is down…Our military is still the best in the world, our technology is head and shoulders above anything else….so who needs the EU.
Frankly, I’d rather hook up with some allies that still have a pair. Such as Australia or even Russia or China.
If those two countries would smarten up and lose their communist systems, we could have a stong alliance against Islamofacism.
What we need is a Yalta conference….not to divide up Germany…but to destroy Islamic tyranny, same as we destroyed Nazism and Japanese militarism in WWII.
The Chinese have probs with the Ughurs. The Russians with Chechnians, Uzbecks and other Muslim terrorists. Why not an alliance against them?
On the other hand who would buy Russian and Chinese weapons? So I guess my idea is out?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:06 pmDanny-boy, already on your nerves, can’t do any good for the brave soldier you pretend your are
BTW, I am not a Parisian, neither a leftist, nor a boy or a belgian, (what do you have against the brave Belgians though
)
August 27th, 2007 at 3:27 pmThey leave wars when people start getting killed? What is the military to them, a parade?
August 27th, 2007 at 3:46 pmEuropean militaries, other than the British, are useless. Germans in Afghanistan are at least there, but they will not fight at night. Far too challanging.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:51 pmFrance the retour:
I just don’t like you Frenchy. And you’re a woman? Well that figures. Pardon me madam.
And Frenchy, I am indeed a brave ex-soldier. And still ready to fight my enemies anywhere, anyplace for my country or just because I want to try out my newest martial arts move.
Can’t say much for your country, but since you are a woman, my sainted French Grandmother would not approve of me giving you too hard of a time.
She’d cuss me out in French. Then do it again in English.
So being the brave soldier that I am and respectful of my grandmother, I’ll have to cut you some slack in the future.
August 27th, 2007 at 4:16 pmI never doubted the europeans wouldnt have the fortitude to stick it out, i just wasnt sure when they would finally give up. America’s motto: “complete the mission”(democrats: “If we are succeeding then lets quit.”)
the european motto: “fight until we lose our will” Europe needs a true leader.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:17 pmTJ:
Love the kafir moniker….Another branch of Team Infidel?
August 27th, 2007 at 5:34 pmOutstanding……
Friggin’ Eurowankers have no ballz at all. They have less guts than the Frenchies did in WWII (which wasn’t much).
The only thing good that comes from France is Ciroc. Other than that, I wouldn’t piss on the best part of that shithole that my fathers fought for.
August 27th, 2007 at 5:45 pmIt’s as if the Europeans and the Brits are content with putting their heads down for the enemy to hack off. WTF is happening? I feel I am watching lambs being led to slaughter. Is this what transpired before Hitler waltzed into Europe?
August 27th, 2007 at 7:54 pmDan,
Infidel, kafir, dhimmi, scum sucking pig feces, its all the same to muslims towards their unbelieving foes.
August 27th, 2007 at 9:09 pmEurope, you used to be good at beating up on each other. Just think of Afghanistan as a live-fire exercise. You’re a bit rusty, you need the practice.
August 27th, 2007 at 11:26 pmDan, and tutti quanti,
we europeans are grown-ups, we know who are our ennemies, and sometimes we do not agree with your views and ways how to handle a war with Arabs and muslins that we know for ages ; of course we’ll have to suffer the consequences of a misleading or of a bad interpretation of your penthagoned-leathered-circle administrative brains ; Muslins are our proxy neighbours, they share relatives, families who live in our countries ; they are our best custommers for our goods… and they are, for a very few of them, our nearest terrorists too
so if, we europeans, don’t always follow you, whoever idiot in Capitol makes a threat for a war to, wherever it could be, that means we have to think about it and not rush in the mess
and for those, whose refrain is still WW1, WW2, they are not very aware of the true history, they just propagate what an idiot on their TV said to look funny ; anyway I suppose you did not learn too much history in your schools ! otherwise, I am sure you would not have made such mistakes, and I am not giving you the links anymore to update your brain cells full of void
and yes, may-be your army is still acting as an exemple of how to make war nowadays, thus other nations learn what works, what fails, it is a question of tactics and technical materials though, that whatever arms manufacturer is watching across the world, and don’t forget it : your are in that part of ME, to improve your technical skills in managing a war and improving arms, and for the 2nd biggest oil reserve (that private contractors are already protecting)
August 28th, 2007 at 2:19 amFrance the retour, I know enough history to know you would be still kissing the boots of Nazi Germany had we not jumped in. Radical Muslims are NOT your friends, you will convert or you will die. There is no in between. I would rather die then submit to these arses, but in the mean time we will take care of the problem as we have had to do so many times before for you. Remember, it’s always the US who ends up doing your dirty work.
August 28th, 2007 at 7:03 am“it’s always the US who ends up doing your dirty work.”
yeah, seems you like to get the honnors for it
a part WW, I don’t see you helped us much, it was more to fight the Stalin advances ; anyway I won’t discuss your merits
but as far as radical islamist terrorism is concerned, you made it, Irak was not a nest for terrorists before you went there
August 28th, 2007 at 8:16 amObviously, somebody frim France is trying hard to rewite history.
Do the names “Normandy” or “Battle of the Bulge” mean anything to you? Any idea who fought in both of those battles?
Any idea of how many Americans are buried in and around the French coutryside that paid the ultimate price to save your sorry, unappreciative and worthless asses?
Whomever you are…please take a sweet suck on the sunny side of my emblem of the generative power.
August 28th, 2007 at 1:20 pmcool man, I was responding to the remanent discourse that some of your country fellows keep throwing at our face ; seems there is a lack of imagination there
yeah, the Frenchs don’t forget what you did for our country
do I remind you within each argument that you owe us your independance too ?
August 28th, 2007 at 5:28 pm