Not that I’m disagreeing at all with increases in Educational benefits. I’m in the Ohio ANG and the state of Ohio paid for my college diploma in full. However, I got only a couple hundred bucks a month for the GI Bill, about 1/5 of what the active duty gets.

The major part of this that really annoys me though is that you have Webb bitching about how our soldiers don’t have the proper equipment to go into battle, so they try to spend money to get it at the same time they’re trying to withdrawal troops. Also, they want a major increase in educational benefits when you have Obama saying he wants to “slow the development of future combat systems”. All this logic accomplishes is having a military that perpetually won’t be ready for the next conflict. Or maybe, Webb is hoping that if every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine does go to college, they will all be indocrtinated into the left wing anti war fringe.

That is the hope of every Liberal. Remember what “they” say, Liberals are more HIGHLY (said with a snooty accent) educated while Conservatives are generally the students of experience. Service breeds Conservatives through experience and that is exactly why “they” are trying to short circuit it with this increase in short-term service benefits.

Wasn’t it Kruschev that said something like they may not be able to defeat the US in the short term but that they would eventually topple us through our education system and indoctrinating our youth? (something like that at least)

Also, I’ve been out for 4 years but didn’t they start giving full GI Benefits to NG/Res that served at least 12 mos. on active duty? (If they didn’t, they should!)

Yea, I used the Community College of the Air Force program to get credit for my technical schools and other training. I didn’t get a full degree from there, but was able to transfer the credits to tOSU to pick up extra credits. They didn’t do much from a course load standpoint, but they helped me advance my standing from a sophomore to junior. That was cool cause I was able to schedule earlier.

I believe thats correct about the NG/RES being on orders for a year and getting benefits.

I read a book by pat buchanan called the death of the west. He made some interesting points on how the leftist movements in this country went from only labor unions to relatively mainstream. His assertion was that when Hitler rose to power in germany and then commenced with the blood purges a couple years later, most of the communist party then the socialists within the nazi movement had to escape to the west to avoid being swept up by the brownshirts. These german communists got into the department of education and labor unions in the late 30’s through the 40s. Twenty years later their effect was the college educated antiwar liberal elite bullshit that was the 60s. I thought that chapter was really interesting and filled in quite a few of the blanks on where these fucking hippies suddenly came from back in the 60s.

Your suggestion that most, or many troops only join for college money is preposterous. The number of active duty persons who use GI Bill benefits after their service is extraordinarily low. It is also a ridiculous claim because it is merely an incentive. Would I chide you for taking a job because they offered you health insurance or 4-week a year vacations, of course not! But I bet you would get mad after when your health insurance didnt cover certain procedures you need or you could only take one week vacations from work at a time.

The fact is troops used their education benefits post-world war II went to Ivy league schools fully paid for (today the GI bill only covers around 30% - 40% of the costs of state colleges and 10% - 20 of the cost for most private institutions). They used that education and leg up to create the great nation we live in now. It only benefits the nation to enhance the potential of people who stood up for civic virtue put their life on the line and defended the nation; I cant see how anyone would argue it wouldnt. Do you want stupid emo, love me generation kids, who worship themselves and how pretty they are, the only people with degrees, thus making them the future leaders of america? or do you want vets?

Many of the people on this site complain about liberal colleges and liberal indoctrination. It is a fact that the military is generally conservative. Are you suggesting that when student vets like myself, go to college we are just going to become dumb liberals suddenly? When the teacher says the iraq war is stupid are we just going to nod - or will we cite anecdotal evidence? Maybe we can talk other people into thinking outside the box of the ivory tower? Maybe an influx of vets who served this fine nation into colleges could cause a sea change in the politics of education.

I myself served in combat in two seperate tours. I get no money because I was a reservist- one of the provisions in this bill would cover me (reservists cant use any benefits after their service ends, unlike active duty personnel). I’m for it and hope after listening to my arguments you would think about your position some more.

Ok, first things first, I never said that “most” troops join the military for college money. I DID say that many do. This is a statement of fact yet not a speculation on ratio. I too am a veteran, served 8 yrs. (1996-2004) and was also a platoon sergeant for a COLT platoon. Out of the 30 or so men that I got the honor to lead for one time or another, 2 informed me during their initial counseling that the reason they had enlisted was for the college/bonus money. Of these 2, both re-enlisted because they came to believe that service was more important than money. This is why I stated that, “some of my best soldiers were of this mindset”. And both of them did not re-up “just because”, they did it to fulfill orders to Korea and Drum (I was at Fort Carson at the time). So, please read my comments more carefully next time.

Second, in-service benefits should be increased. I stated this before and I stand by it now and this would PROMOTE educated veterans and service-members as opposed to coddling the pacifier hippies that smoke pot all day and don’t attend even a 1/4 of their classes. I do not propose a condition on type of service (NG/RES vs. Active) just that it should be done.

Third, I agree with you that NG/Res soldiers that have served on active duty should be able to have access to their benefits following their ETS but that these should be at the full, active-duty GI Bill rate and not a reduced rate.

Fourth, as far as covering tuition costs at Ivy League schools, I do not agree. Every time financial assistance and pell grant maximums are raised, what happens? Schools raise their tuition rates. I am a veteran who has and is using his GI benefits. To cover the gap I took the Army College Fund when I enlisted instead of a $10,000 bonus in ‘96 and I have also used various other grants and scholarships from time to time. Doing this has allowed me to actually pocket money for each semester attended that has helped pay for living costs, etc. Sometimes, soldiers need to look to more than a cash bonus for enlisting. And enlistment counseling needs to be improved to better help them choose.

And I agree that an educated veteran can be nothing but a positive force within our nation and education system.

But I say again, Webb and the DNC should not be using this as a political football as they have. This should be put to committee and the floor where all aspects of it can be debated and hashed out outside of political, back door politics where Webb goes to “rallies” and journalists so as to pressure individuals into acquiescence.

P.S. I too have had to debate classrooms full of mushy brains about Iraq (although I had only 1 tour to your 2) and fully understand your frustration. We don’t disagree on the substance, just the fine details.

Godspeed and thank you for your service!

For your fourth point, I only raised the dynamics of ivy league schools to prove a point. The “new GI Bill” is not meant to cover the costs of Ivy league or really high up private institutions. What it will do is cover as much of the tuition for a private school at the cost of the most expensive public university in the state the private school is located within.

I am sure you, like myself dont want things handed to either us. The new GI Bill as I think you agree is an investment in the future of the nation.

Later bro.

I agree, it IS an investment. One, as you pointed out, too few take advantage of. While I do agree on raising the maximum pay out benefit similar to what you highlighted with your post-WW2 Ivy League reference, I just can’t get behind the idea of raising it to equal the tuition at the most expensive state institution for whichever state you live in. Not being able to speak for where you live, here in Texas there are problems where certain institutions that although they are state funded and ran, have tuition rates that out pace others because they are “in” schools to go to. An example would be UT in Austin where they have even implemented admission policies that rival many a private institution. From speaking with people Michigan, Tennessee, Colorado (Boulder), among many others I’m sure, have this same issue. A compromise? State average plus 2 to 5 percent maybe? I could see that as workable but just not an auto-increase to the most expensive. Then maybe an increase to the Army College Fund (meaning if you don’t get it at enlistment you can get it at re-enlistment) and an expansion of who it is offered to based on time in service/grade (regardless active/non-active).

See man, this is the crap THEY should be working out and not us while we stand here screaming at them to get SOMETHING done.

1. Any soldier, sailor, marine, or airman that signs on for an initial period of enlistment and tells you they are going to a full 20+ year career is probably pretty naive. It takes a while before you learn if the service is right for you and vice versa. That these folks separate after 4 years doesn’t mean they should be denied educational benefits of some kind. History has shown that the dollars spent on these educational subsidies are really an investment in the future — a higher education leads to a higher wages and a higher taxes … Sam gets his money back!

2. The educational benefits (of the Viet Nam era GI bill) were structured so as to set a dollar cap on the benefits such that xx dollars = yy months of entitlement. The entitlement was linked to the length of service. The maximum entitlement was 48 months (IIRC). So if you went to a state university your entitlement would get you more bang for your buck. If you wanted to use 9 months of entitlement for one semester at an Ivy League school that meant you would run out of benefits before you graduated.

3. Service run programs that provide credit for technical training and other service schools should absolutely be a part of every service — not just the Air Force. My Community College of the AF credits and my CLEP tests allowed me to bypass a bunch of the Freshman and Sophomore “survey” courses and go straight to my major. This route (as well as on-line courses) should be offered and promoted for every service man and woman.

4. Sending a Vet to a college classroom is the surest way to “call” the liberal faculty on their simplistic/socialistic views and propaganda. Just imagine a Berkly prof of sociology trying to convince some Iraq vet that we should tolerate the islamo-fascists and make nice with them

Sorry to rant .. but this is one is close to home … spend the bucks .. give the GI’s their due. It will make us a stronger nation in the end (and besides it’s a hell of a recruitment tool!!!). I say this as someone who entered the service as a 17 year old with no career plans and found a home! Not everyone will … but that doesn’t mean they should leave empty handed either.

Capt. DS USAF Ret.

While I still graduated in debt, (from my local state college) the GI Bill saved my butt dozens of times when I might otherwise have had to drop out. However, tuition costs were going up every year along with parking, books….etc. The military folks headed to college now are going to pay a whole lot more than I did.

I wish the politicians would stop bickering, at least where this issue is concerned. Education is always a good thing and if the GI Bill gets a face lift, I’m all for it.

Don’t be fooled… Almost all schools raise their tuition every year. Cost of doing business. NOT because the government raises their allowances. The government just recently raised Stafford loan and Pell rates (couple of years ago), after at least 10 years of not raising the limit at all, but that never stopped schools from raising their tuition. One does not beget the other…

But in agreement to your statement about Ivy League schools… Don’t forget that Ivy Leagues have endowments that are donated from Alumni far beyond their need for super-high tuition.

Harvard has 4 BILLION in the bank in their endowment and they still collect 50K per year in tuition from their students (not counting fees, food and housing, and every kid in a Harvard hoodie paying for it at the bookstore) .

Yale is building a multi-million dollar dorm because they got told to “use it or loose it” or face major taxes on their endowment.

Those are just TWO if the Ivy League big-names that could afford to send the entire US military to school for free out of their endowment if they chose to.

But that will never happen because having a major “brand-name” college education is just a reason for the school to continue to charge stupid-high prices and stay wealthy (and make political contributions…).

On a side note (speaking of all of those liberal schools out there) Ashford University is a VERY PRO-troop school. If you are USA, USN, USAF, USMC & USCG Active Duty, Reserves, AD spouse, DOD/USCG civilian, or retired/veterans with the GI Bill they will pay for all of your books, waive about $1000 worth of fees (application and technology fees) and cap your tuition at $750 per course. So basically, as long as your AD TA or GI Bill lasts you can go to school practically for free.

I know this because I work there as a Military and Veteran specialist helping my fellow brothers and sisters in arms get their education. If you guys are interested, go to the website (www.ashford.edu) call the 866 number and ask for extension 3077 and tell me you saw this on Dollard.