Dollard Nation: Speculation Conspiracy Theory Poll - What, Physically, Is Russia Doing On The Ground In Georgia?
Bash here: I have been thinking and thinking about this and there is a thought that keeps coming into my head every time I think long enough (which can sometimes be painful)…
I am not prone to Conspiracy Theories, and I have not heard anything like what I am about to bring up talked about anywhere yet, but…
Aside from all of the “Posturing” and “Flexing” and “Messages” being sent by the Russians as they dig trenches and sink ships and block ports of trade etc etc etc…
Here’s my question, and I want you to speculate a little. Think about it…
The Russians are effectively “sealing off” a geographic location and most of the world (aside from our secret eyes in the sky which info won’t go public any time soon) has absolutely no visual record of what the Russian Ground Forces are actually doing inside Georgia.
When I was in the Coast Guard at the climax of the Cold War, our ship was always cruising around the Bering Sea, coming within sight of Siberia quite often, and also quite often, bringing Seabees along on Temp Duty with unmarked crates and other big equipment that would not be on board when we returned home.
Fairway Rock was very well known to us on the USCGC Jarvis (WHEC-725).
What are the Russian “planting” in Georgia. My Spidey-Senses are telling me that they are digging and burying and burrowing and planting and erecting and stringing and setting stuff up in remote locations and in ways to be undetectable, for the most part, to most of the world once they do actually pull out.
Get conspiratorial here, Oh Dollard Reader, and tell me…any ideas as to what kinds of covert construction/implanting may be going on?
Or am I just crazy? Louie thinks I’m crazy, but you know Louie, he’s just a dead pig…
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They are planting land sharks with frikkin lasers on thier heads. I really can’t think of anything that might be of use to them there that would not be pretty apearent when they pull back. I know there were rumors(confimed?) or nuclear landmines back in the bad old days but I can’t imagine that they could pull that off without being detected. Forward sensors might be a possibility but Georgia does not lie on a likely line of attack should we decide, in defiance of history and character, to attack the Soviet Union Russia.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:10 pmhmm I guess “strike though” html code doesn’t work here…..
August 21st, 2008 at 12:12 pmlets try that again….
August 21st, 2008 at 12:14 pmSoviet UnionRussia..This is why I wish we had a “preview” feature.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:14 pmI think you striked out the wrong name.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:17 pmI’m not so sure the Ruskies are “planting” anything as destroying shit. The Georgians I met in 2007 said that when the Soviets left they filled in sewers, water lines and the like with concrete, destroyed roads and basically trashed the infrastructure in Georgia. My theory would be that those douche bags are at it again.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:19 pmI don’t buy the construction angle. This can’t be about needing more people to rule, this isn’t about a separatist Islamic ‘Stan on their border, this isn’t about resources (at least not directly). There can be only one thing they want and that’s control of that pipeline. Right now, Russia controls around 20% of the liquid petroleum flowing to Europe and 40% of the natural gas. If they control this second pipeline, they control everything flowing West from Siberia and the Caspian basin. That makes the arms deal with the Saudis and the link I posted in the Deep Thoughts thread all the more intriguing.
The “valve malfunction” in the Turkish portion of the pipeline is rumored to have been a sabotage effort by the PPK, the Kurdish WORKERS Party, if you catch my drift.
Meanwhile, I was in the Bering around the same time period, but as an American biologist on Soviet fishing vessels. I could tell you some stories!
August 21st, 2008 at 12:23 pmYou want a good conspiracy though…..Soros and his band of ass pirates are funding the Russians, anything to impede the development of another nation that has chosen the path of democracy…all in practice to help that cocksucker Obama who wants to destroy America
August 21st, 2008 at 12:26 pmPutin and his pseudo Red Army are doing what they can to raise oil futures, so he can replace the largely obsolete pieces of shit used in Georgia, with modern equipment. At this point, there’s a good chance we’ll be fighting Russia and their bloc of turd world countries, within two decades.
Today, they succeeded in raising oil prices. The democrats still haven’t jumped on the bandwagon of increased and viable sources of energy.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:28 pmsure wish i knew Bash. im not too good at conspiracy theories. but i will say alot of devious things that your mind can come up with in regards to what Russia may be doing in Georgia may very well be right. Ethnic cleansing, territory take-over, oil pipeline grab. setting their forces up in Georgia for some other strike on another country. could be anything
August 21st, 2008 at 12:33 pmIf they’re planting anything, my guess it would have something to do with the pipelines - particularly the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline. Since blowing up the pipeline right now might not be such a great idea, perhaps they plan on damaging it remotely after they withdraw. Then they can play the plausible deniability card.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pmThe only things the russian government has ever been successful at is destroying things, impeding progress, oppressing anyone within reach and generally tossing monkey wrenches in the works of U.S. allies. putin could be testing the waters for blocking Ukraine and Georgia’s bid for NATO membership while at the same time evaluating the strength of our relations with these countries. He may also be detering internal rumblings to a more western style of government. Whatever the reasons, the bear won’t leave the stage without a shot through the skull.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:51 pmOh, I forgot one, they’re also excellent at siding with our enemies on any given subject.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:53 pmI’ll play your game…
1. They are withdrawing slowly and said they would set up a ‘buffer zone’ beyond S. Ossetia manned by 500 personnel. This means they have a permanent foothold in the ‘heart’ of Georgia (near the Gori region). They use this anyway they want, by:
a. The constant threat that they can immediately cut Gori, Tbilisi off and cut Georgia in two, thereby keeping it under Putin’s thumb.
b. This ‘buffer zone’ is a new AO that can be a transit point for HUMINT, weapons smuggling, terrorist allies (read: Chechens- VOSTOK Battalion and such).
c. They are stalling on withdrawing because they need time to set this ‘buffer zone’ up, because it will be much too conspicuous later.
d. This ‘buffer zone’ set up is a direct threat to the pipelines - there main goal.
2. Abkhazia and the port of Poti. By blocking it they have control of its access. They also have the port itself and have less dependence on the Sevastopol port on the Crimea which is owned by Ukraine.
SUMMARY: Even though they will ‘withdraw’, they NEVER will fully. Georgia is a key location because of the pipelines, port of Poti, and close proximity to Iran, a key Ally. They can flex control of the European Union via the Pipeline threat, and can mitigate the Ukraine’s ‘threat’ on Sevastopol (even though they own it). At the most, when Putin’s time is right, he can absorb the rest of Georgia ala Hitler/Czechoslovakia 1938. If that happens, he can directly blackmail the EU and coordinate much more confidently with Iran. And that means more sophisticated weapons in the hands of the IRGC in Iraq, thereby threatening Iraq and the US position in the middle east.
This is about a quick repositioning, a ‘force multiplier’ if you will. This multiplies there foreign relation powers, reach, and scope, and keeps the EU meek, weak, and undercontrol.
It is win-win for Russia.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:09 pmThe Russian ‘people’ are very good folks and I’m very fond of them, but they’re used to being ruled; comfortable with it. Those fuckin’ Kah Geh Beh types are a different animal, entirely.
I was once invited to meet the Americans on another Soviet vessel and it was a (rare) calm day, so they rigged a big basket between the ships. My turn to be cabled over came and a guy I didn’t know (obviously originally from the other boat) decided to ‘join’ me. I could tell, immediately, he was Kah Geh Beh and pretty darned senior. When we reached the mid-point, he signaled the crews and the basket stopped moving. He lapsed into perfect English and said, “Observer (my title), you see this?” He waved his arm across the Eastern Horizon, Alaska. “Once, this belonged to us. It will belong to us again.” I wondered why he would bother saying something like that to a lowly, young, American biologist. Then I realized he must have known my Dad was with the State Department. So I smiled at him and said, “Poshol Na Xud.” Which basically means go fuck yourself in the ass. I was very disappointed to find that the senior observers on the other ship were lounging around the Captain’s quarters, availing themselves of his booze. There’s a reason Kah Geh Beh-types think most Americans are weaklings.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:16 pm“They’re building landing strips for gay martians!”
for anyone who gets that quote.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:43 pmIn Soviet Russia, Conspiracy theorizes you
Sorry, but someone had to say it.
I don’t think this is anything more than a result of two things. 1)Russia’s historical inferiority complex on a national scale, and 2) Oil. Which leaves me asking why the Liberals aren’t condemning the Ruskies for fighting a war for oil. Oh wait, in their eyes Russia=Good and America=Evil
August 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pmThey’re looting, pillaging and leaving behind scorched earth.
And flooding all of Georgia with spies of every type.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pmPutin and his pseudo Red Army are doing what they can to raise oil futures: BINGO
August 21st, 2008 at 2:36 pmPlus they are watching and waiting to see what the rest of the world will do. NOTHING.
If nothing is done, they will take some more.
This reminds me of that movie, “Michael,” with John Travolta. The angel (Travolta) is exuding an aroma, and everyone’s trying to guess what it is. Finally, one woman says, with the voice of authority, “It’s cookies.”
Well, anyway…a veteran friend of mine says the Russians have always been “land mine happy.” He thinks they’re laying land mines.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:43 pmBash you make me feel like it’s part of some Doomsday device . . . with a fail safe trigger that cannot be disarmed. We need to gather 10 women to every man and head underground so that in 93 years we can re-emerge . . . . MEIN FUHER!!!
August 21st, 2008 at 2:54 pmi agree, money talks, and given that a winter supply of natural gas to georgia is from russia there will be no hesitaiton to have an “accident” on the pipeline like in 2006 winter, but the betrayal part is plausible, as well as the possible time bombs…but to be honest i believe they are searching for a remainder of the georgian armed forces, the just cant believe that we just evaporated in a thin air, especially when they knew that at least 2 brigades (about 8 thousand trained military personel) were stationed on the west side of georgia and they cant find them…they are digging in around Poti, i ve sen the vids on our TV they’ve camoflaged their howizers as “bushes” all aimed at the port…two things i think will happen:
August 21st, 2008 at 2:56 pma) they are going to withdrawl at the sight of the US Navy “humanitarian” aid ships and actually surprise teh west
b) the shit is about to hit the fan
either way, they arent planting anything high-tech nor nuclear minefields (why would they????) more likely just local sold-out joe-shmoe whos is willing to sell his momma for couple of grand $ , this is our natianal “treasure” our castles have always been taken over from within…sad but true, but im sure our intell dept is on the top of things, there could be some double agent shit going down as well, one thing i can say for sure is that by the next week it will be clear as who has actually won and lost, the situation now is messy and doesnt follow the logical path of chain of events
and rssians still dont have a clear policy on Caucasus region, i think they lost it
ou yea i forgot, landmines, unexploded ordnance and cesium isotopes are favourite russian surprises..those motherfukers
August 21st, 2008 at 3:01 pmThe “Security Zone”. In the main Georgia thread is a comment nobody is noting, from the American on the Security Council; “There is no Security Zone”. Yeah, Sarkozy goofed, but the US stance is that there is no Security Zone and all Russian troops are back to the August 6th lines, tomorrow.
It is critical that Americans back this notion that there is no Security Zone. The Russians don’t care what American politicians say, because they know they will never have to face down American politicians.
This is the line in the sand and Russia wants to brazen their way past it, because Sarkozy (and therefore, the EU) agreed to vague “other security” operations. The U.S. (let’s face it, nobody else has the balls) has to stand firm on status quo ante August 6th. The reason the U.S. has the balls is because we are South Ossetian and Georgian and Iranian and Bulgarian, etc., and many of our citizens recognize a power play when they see one. The comfortable citizens in the Hamptons and Beverly Hills? Not so much.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pmMy guess:
Two reasons. First, they’re driving the Georgians out and looting everything not nailed down. On second thought, they’re probably taking crowbars to everything that IS nailed down. Pillaging entire cities takes time. And I don’t think they’ll be content with stealing. Give them time, and they’ll salt the earth and not leave one brick on top of another.
Putin named the invasion ‘Scorched Earth’ after all.
Second, they’re probably building caches packed with everything a KGB spy/sabotuer could possibly need, from fake IDs to surveillance devices, along with the hardware to get a full fledged insurgency started.
For instance, whether or not Georgia gets Abkhazia and South Ossetia back, they’ll set up checkpoints on as many routes into Georgia proper as they can. While they can be circumvented, it’d be much easier for Ossetian insurgents to go through a checkpoint without any contraband, then pick up AKs and Semtex from a hidden bunker so he can, say, knock a pipeline or railroad out of commission.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they leave some nasty surprises for returning Georgians, too. Mines, booby traps, children’s toys that explode, etc. I wouldn’t put poisoning wells past them either.
I’m sure they’ll blame all the really nasty atrocities on Cossack and Chechen ‘volunteers,’ while simultaneously saying the Georgians had it coming.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:24 pmWe will shortly have 3 strike groups in the Persian Gulf. We have landed over 20 flights in Georgia and are currently moving missile frigates into the Black Sea under the cover of “Humanitarian Aid”.
Russia’s required payment for their acquiescence to the upcoming bombardment of Iran? The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline.
August 21st, 2008 at 4:27 pmDon’t know…..but I would bet money the Eye in the Sky knows exactly what is going on.
August 21st, 2008 at 4:59 pmMuch of the “white noise” (mines, looting, etc.), is true, but what is Putin the chess player going for? He doesn’t care about TV sets or blown-up Georgians. He cares about the pipeline. Why would he need Semtex for the pipeline? He’s over-flying the pipeline with bombers, still..today. He can blow it up any time hw wants to.
Giorgi makes an interesting point; there’s a light division of Georgian troops they can’t lay their hands on. That has to piss them off and get them out of their game. That’s very damned interesting. Giorgi, if that’s true and you are for real, lay low. Some people understand it takes awhile for things to get moving, especially against political sabotage.
To the best of my knowledge, we are not moving two frigates into the Black Sea. I believe we are moving a Guided Missile Destroyer and a Coast Guard Cutter, out of Crete, into the Black Sea. However, it’s not about the ships. It’s about boots on the ground and Russia backing off from blocking the port on the Black Sea, then backing up all the way to the tunnel to Russia. Both sides know they can obliterate each other with nuclear missiles, so it’s not about force. It’s about will.
August 21st, 2008 at 5:13 pmBodies. I haven’t heard anything in the news about causulties because it is “unsafe to enter the area”. Planting some sort of sensors would be detected quickly. Also it just seems like something else ….in Iran….is going on. We haven’t heard a peep from anyone else recently, Israel, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah. Syria and North Korea just a little bit. Russia is buying time and being patient like the jihadipukefucks.
August 21st, 2008 at 8:52 pm“He’s over-flying the pipeline with bombers, still..today. He can blow it up any time hw wants to.”
According to several DD reports, the Russian Air Force kept targeting and missing that pipeline. Think Pootin is pissed bout that if it’s true?
August 21st, 2008 at 9:22 pmthey did try to bomb the pipeline, on several occasions, fortunately they couldn’t inflict any damage, they just dropped several bombs in vicinity of the pipelines’ route …this also could be just to show everybody that they can do it if they wanted to
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 am