Russia: America Has Surrounded Us, August 8 Was Our September 11
Ian Herald, International Leftist, I Meibune:
MOSCOW: Here is one measure of the aggressive shift in Russian foreign policy in recent days: Dmitri Rogozin, Russia’s representative to NATO, a finger-wagging nationalist who once hung Stalin’s portrait in his office, is not sounding so extreme any more.
“There are two dates that have changed the world in recent years: Sept. 11, 2001, and Aug. 8, 2008,” Rogozin said in an interview, explaining the ramifications of the conflict that erupted in Georgia nearly three weeks ago. “They are basically identical in terms of significance.”
“Sept. 11 motivated the United States to behave really differently in the world,” he said. “That is to say, Americans realized that even in their homes, they could not feel safe. They had to protect their interests, outside the boundaries of the U.S. For Russia, it is the same thing. We were sitting in our homes, the national discussion was internal. Now this Georgian attack is perceived as aggression, and made us realize that we cannot stay home. We have to go outside our homes to protect ourselves on new frontiers.”
Only a few months ago, the blustery Rogozin, 44, was regarded even in the Kremlin as more performance artist than diplomat. Established officials sometimes rolled their eyes when he was mentioned, as if to acknowledge that Vladimir Putin had dispatched him to NATO to do a little trash talking to rattle the West.
After arriving in Brussels early this year, Rogozin quickly scorned what he called the “blah, blah, blah” diplomatic niceties and pounded away at his theme: after years of affronts, Russia had had enough.
Its thrust into Georgia made that apparent, as did its decision Tuesday to recognize the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the breakaway enclaves that spurred the crisis. Now the rising stature of Rogozin, who called NATO criticism of Russia’s military action “bigoted and indecent,” is underscoring Russia’s sharp new tone - one adopted by both President Dmitri Medvedev and his mentor, Putin.
Rogozin remains a provocative figure in Moscow, known for once spearheading a political party that espoused anti-immigrant appeals described by some opponents as racist.
After the conflict broke out, NATO said there would be no “business as usual” in relations with Russia, and Russia in turn suspended some military cooperation. The Kremlin refrained from breaking all ties, saying it would continue to provide assistance in Afghanistan. Still, Medvedev talked tough.
“We do not need illusions of partnership,” Medvedev said Monday in a nationally televised appearance with Rogozin. “When we are being surrounded by bases on all sides, and a growing number of states are being drawn into the North Atlantic bloc, and we are being told ‘Don’t worry, everything is all right,’ naturally we do not like it.”
“If they essentially wreck this cooperation, it is nothing horrible for us,” he said. “We are prepared to accept any decision, including the termination of relations as a whole.”
For his part, Putin, who is now prime minister, declared Monday that Russia was pulling out of some agreements intended to smooth entrance into the World Trade Organization.
He said Russians now understand that the United States is trying to encircle them, in part by siding with an unstable Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili. He said Russians were surprised that the West did not care that Georgia attacked first, or that many civilians suffered in South Ossetia.
A poll released last week by the Levada Center, a respected polling institute in Moscow, backed up his assertions, showing that 74 percent of Russians believed that Georgia was a pawn of the United States. Asked the cause of the crisis, 49 percent said it was Washington’s policies in the region, while 32 percent blamed Georgia. Only 5 percent held Russia responsible.
Rogozin added that the West had not understood Russian resentment over Kosovo, which declared independence this year from Serbia, an ally of Moscow, over Russian objections.
He said the Kremlin also bristled at NATO criticism of the Russian military action as not “proportional” because it seemed far more restrained than the NATO bombing of Belgrade, the Serbian capital, in 1999.
“You have no moral right to say it is not proportional,” Rogozin said. “If we did proportionally in the Caucasus what you did in Serbia, then Tbilisi would have been demolished. That would have been proportional.”
Even as the Russian foreign policy establishment seems to move closer to Rogozin’s views, he remains polarizing because of his past. “I myself was perplexed when I heard of this appointment,” said Pavel Zolotaryov, deputy director of the institute for U.S. and Canada studies at the Russian Academy of Sciences. Zolotaryov added, though, that people in Russia were beginning to view NATO differently. “It turns out that all the words about the cooperation between Russia and NATO remain words,” he said.
U.S. officials at NATO would not comment on Rogozin. Georgia’s representative to NATO, Revaz Beshidze, said that no matter how outlandish Rogozin sounds, he has served a purpose.
“He is implementing strict instructions from Moscow,” Beshidze said.
Before going to Brussels, Rogozin was considered a political has-been, who alienated the Kremlin by making nationalist statements when he was a member of parliament. His former political party, Rodina, which means “motherland” in Russian, campaigned on a platform against immigration of people from the Caucasus (including Georgia) and Central Asia.
Rogozin said he deeply regretted his behavior when he was involved in electoral politics in Moscow, and is hoping to rehabilitate his reputation through his work in Brussels. Still, sometimes it seems as if he cannot help himself.
After arriving in Brussels, he put up in his office a World War II poster that featured armed Soviet soldiers next to a portrait of Stalin. He fancied it as history. Others at NATO headquarters were not as amused.
Rogozin relented and removed it. He said he took it to the United States on his recent visit and gave it to Kissinger. He recounted the story, and then grinned. “Troublemaker!” he said.
Be respectful of others and their opinions. Inflammatory remarks and inane leftist drivel will be deleted. It ain’t about free speech, remember you’re in a private domain. My website, my prerogative.
If you can't handle using your real email address, don't bother posting a comment.
That’s funny he said that. ?? So, The Old USSR considers Georgia a New Frontier. That is hilariously Bullshit Soviet style Propaganda. They are comparing September 11 with Georgia.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:22 amFucking Rusky assholes. They sacked a democracy not had a major attack in Moscow. These Russians are pathological liars.
“You have no moral right to say it is not proportional,” Rogozin said. “If we did proportionally in the Caucasus what you did in Serbia, then Tbilisi would have been demolished. That would have been proportional.”
Oh, bullshit. Milosevic was attempting a systematic ethnic cleansing of Kosovo, wouldn’t withdraw his troops when demanded, and didn’t relent until we crippled his forces. Moreover, we engaged in targeted bombing of significant targets, starting by only hitting a handful of high value targets, but expanded the bombing only when that did not prove sufficient.
The campaign in Georgia, by the level or organization involved, was planned months in advance and as fullscale by Russian forces, who sought to completely remove a democratically elected government.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:36 amHorse-shit!
I’ve got to hand-it to these pricks, so far they’ve pulled-off an extremely slick operation and as much as I hate admitting it(especially publicly), I’m actually very impressed and in no ‘little’ awe. This piece of 200% propaganda fit’s right in, perfectly: ‘Those nasty Amerinazi’s forced us to take these repellent moves{sob-sob, boo-hoo} we would have never, ever, not in our wildest dreams have invaded Georgia if it wasn’t for Bush! Poor, poor us. BUT WE AIN”T FRIGGIN LEAVING GEORGIA TILL WE’RE DONE…and we not! So get over-it.
P.S. Tell Poland, the Ukraine they‘re next.
Love and kisses, Vald’
…and yes, I expect they’ll garner a lot of sympathy from our ‘old EU’ friends and allies.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:37 amRussia’s propaganda machine is on full throttle. Independent journalists traveled to Georgia and unearthed information proving that Russia attacked its former satellite on Aug. 6.
It’s almost a wate of time to try to refute Russia’s grandiose comparison between America’s 9/11 and their allegations that Georgia attacked South Ossetia on August 8, 2008. The fact that Russia gave a preemptive attack two days earlier, and that Georgia followed with an appropriate response, is not something they will ever admit to.
I’ve said it again, and I’m saying it now: Russia, kiss my ass.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:56 am“A poll released last week by the Levada Center, a respected polling institute in Moscow, backed up his assertions, showing that 74 percent of Russians believed that Georgia was a pawn of the United States. Asked the cause of the crisis, 49 percent said it was Washington’s policies in the region, while 32 percent blamed Georgia. Only 5 percent held Russia responsible.”
So 49 percent of the Russians believe that the crisis in Georgia was caused by Washington’s policies in the region. Could it be because Pravda and other print and electronic media have been told they must portray the U.S. as an enemy?
We know this is exactly what happened to Russia’s largest independent radio news network. (New York Times, April 22, 2007)
August 28th, 2008 at 2:04 amSigh, i wonder where this will lead us?
August 28th, 2008 at 3:08 amHorse shit is the right word, and it was ment so, I expect.
We are watching a new face of the words war.
while there was an “iran gate”, there will be a “georgian gate” with Scheunenmann connection. It’s a bit funny that the Russians gave a hand to the US by destroying the georgian arms so that they could be replaced by new US made ones. Hey, one has its own ways to manage its place in the GDP world
please don’t take it personnally, that was the king’s dwarf billet
August 28th, 2008 at 3:21 amlol 5% people held russia responsible. whats the chances that 5% has gone away.
August 28th, 2008 at 4:21 amTHe only thing I am inpressed with as far as the Russians go is that they immobilized with antiquated equipment and overweight fat fucking soldiers, very impressive Ivan.
Did anyone see the commanding general of the Russian Spec Forces? The guy looked like he was a good 200 pounds overweight….special forces….yeah they can eat and drink like you wouldnt believe.
August 28th, 2008 at 5:57 amWell the Spetnaz General may be overweight but I wouldnt be naive enough to extend that to thier operators. Spetnaz have traditionaly been held in fairly high esteem for thier capabilities all things considered.
Face it Russia is pulling off a very well planned operation on all fronts. If this is an attempt to control the pipeline and wield “leverage” against Europe, all the more reason why we should be developing our internal oil resources for our supply and as a balance against thier control. Do we really care about Georgia outside of that realm?
August 28th, 2008 at 6:35 amAs I read this I realized how dangerous words are. Words no longer can not hurt us. Idiots in our country who don’t do their homework and consider speeches from the enemy as truth and keep us divided from actions we might take as a country. Im not saying go to war but if that were what was called for the political will would be hard to find. All fronts against us realize this Russia (this is our 9/11, were in defense mode), Iran (we only want energy, friendly speech at columbia U), Bin laden (our beef is with your government not american people), CAIR and their ilk (were just fighting racism and standing up for our rights). We and many other people take this as it is, bullshit propaganda, it angers us, but the facts are the same and we treat it as such, but now there is a sizeable amount of american haters with their che shirts ready to soak all this up, to go along with a treasonous media. Those two combined can lead to not taking the actions necessary and also making the worst decisions for our survival and propserity such as withdrawing in the face of victory, or the electing of what would be a disaster for the country. Education has always been critical to ones success, and now to the future it may be critical to ones and their countryman’s survival. I hope im overstating this but the audacity of COMPLETE BULLSHIT is pissing me off.
August 28th, 2008 at 6:43 am“A poll released last week by the Levada Center, a respected polling institute in Moscow, backed up his assertions, showing that 74 percent of Russians believed that Georgia was a pawn of the United States. Asked the cause of the crisis, 49 percent said it was Washington’s policies in the region, while 32 percent blamed Georgia. Only 5 percent held Russia responsible.”
I think we have something to learn about Russian Propaganda. Or we can call all the liberals political terrorists and throw them in the gulag
August 28th, 2008 at 6:43 am“Oh, bullshit. Milosevic was attempting a systematic ethnic cleansing of Kosovo, wouldn’t withdraw his troops when demanded, and didn’t relent until we crippled his forces. Moreover, we engaged in targeted bombing of significant targets, starting by only hitting a handful of high value targets, but expanded the bombing only when that did not prove sufficient.”
That’s BULLSHIT! The “Ethnic Cleansing” was and continues to be Muzzies displacing Serbian Christians. Clinton’s intervention there was a “Wag The Dog” operation complete with staged evidence against Serbia. Why Willie sided against Belgrade remains in question, minerals for Soros, KLA_drug trading, distraction from Monica Gape, who knows?
Question: What was bagman Ron Brown carrying to Kosovo when his plane was lead off course into the side of a mountain by a moving radio beacon? Who gained what when after surviving the crash Brown was shot in the head and the operator in charge of the radio beacon was found murdered the day after the incident?
Russia is way off base in Georgia but know more about the NATO rape of Serbia, Clinton’s motives, ethnic cleansing of Kosovo by Islamacists which continues to this day and WHY the US attacked a Christian State to support Muslim Narco Terrorists. Look at the pictures of bombed passenger trains loaded with civilians and reappraise “Bullshit”.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:40 amZeke Eagle, K
August 28th, 2008 at 7:45 amCould any military force “respond” as fast as Russia did?
And with that large of a force?
I think not. This was a planned attack against Georgia. The Russians picked the timing when the worlds attention was focused on the Olympics, when the U.S. and other countries military’s are (”proclaimed by the masters of misinformation media”) spread too thin.
Putin wanted us in this and he knew exactly how to draw us in. This whole thing is from Communist masterful planning. There’s no way this could have been a reaction. It’s too big and timed.
August 28th, 2008 at 11:38 amQuestion: What was bagman Ron Brown carrying to Kosovo when his plane was lead off course into the side of a mountain by a moving radio beacon? Who gained what when after surviving the crash Brown was shot in the head and the operator in charge of the radio beacon was found murdered the day after the incident?
Funny you should bring this up … I would say that Ron Brown was about to become a liability to the Clinton White House in the same vein as Vince Foster. My recollection is that the Dept of Commerce was laundering a lot of back-door campaign contributions from various off-shore donors of the Chinese and Muslim persuasion….
August 28th, 2008 at 1:52 pmLink to Ron Brown Arms Dealer as shown in recently released Dept of Commerce documents
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=20468
August 28th, 2008 at 1:58 pm