A WTFO Moment: Torture and the U.S. Intelligence Failure

April 20th, 2009 (26) Posted By Snooper.

geopolitical-intelligence-report1

Some were born into ignorance. Others were born into pomp and glamor. Some were born as normal human beings and grew up to be, well, without other than honorable mention or the ability to actually make sense. It isn’t a Left v Right issue, either but most of us can think on the fly and on our feet. Color me whatever color you choose but there is something about this article that bothers me.

Torture and the U.S. Intelligence Failure, written by George Friedman from stratfor, posted by Mark ” Snooper” Harvey

The Obama administration published a series of memoranda on torture issued under the Bush administration. The memoranda, most of which dated from the period after 9/11, authorized measures including depriving prisoners of solid food, having them stand shackled and in uncomfortable positions, leaving them in cold cells with inadequate clothing, slapping their heads and/or abdomens, and telling them that their families might be harmed if they didn’t cooperate with their interrogators.

On the scale of human cruelty, these actions do not rise anywhere near the top. At the same time, anyone who thinks that being placed without food in a freezing cell subject to random mild beatings — all while being told that your family might be joining you — isn’t agonizing clearly lacks imagination. The treatment of detainees could have been worse. It was terrible nonetheless.

Torture and the Intelligence Gap

But torture is meant to be terrible, and we must judge the torturer in the context of his own desperation. In the wake of 9/11, anyone who wasn’t terrified was not in touch with reality. We know several people who now are quite blasé about 9/11. Unfortunately for them, we knew them in the months after, and they were not nearly as composed then as they are now.

Sept. 11 was terrifying for one main reason: We had little idea about al Qaeda’s capabilities. It was a very reasonable assumption that other al Qaeda cells were operating in the United States and that any day might bring follow-on attacks. (Especially given the group’s reputation for one-two attacks.) We still remember our first flight after 9/11, looking at our fellow passengers, planning what we would do if one of them moved. Every time a passenger visited the lavatory, one could see the tensions soar.

And while Sept. 11 was frightening enough, there were ample fears that al Qaeda had secured a “suitcase bomb” and that a nuclear attack on a major U.S. city could come at any moment. For individuals, such an attack was simply another possibility. We remember staying at a hotel in Washington close to the White House and realizing that we were at ground zero — and imagining what the next moment might be like. For the government, however, the problem was having scraps of intelligence indicating that al Qaeda might have a nuclear weapon, but not having any way of telling whether those scraps had any value. The president and vice president accordingly were continually kept at different locations, and not for any frivolous reason.

This lack of intelligence led directly to the most extreme fears, which in turn led to extreme measures. Washington simply did not know very much about al Qaeda and its capabilities and intentions in the United States. A lack of knowledge forces people to think of worst-case scenarios. In the absence of intelligence to the contrary after 9/11, the only reasonable assumption was that al Qaeda was planning more — and perhaps worse — attacks.

Collecting intelligence rapidly became the highest national priority. Given the genuine and reasonable fears, no action in pursuit of intelligence was out of the question, so long as it promised quick answers. This led to the authorization of torture, among other things. Torture offered a rapid means to accumulate intelligence, or at least — given the time lag on other means — it was something that had to be tried.

Torture and the Moral Question

And this raises the moral question. The United States is a moral project: its Declaration of Independence and Constitution state that. The president takes an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. The Constitution does not speak to the question of torture of non-citizens, but it implies an abhorrence of rights violations (at least for citizens). But the Declaration of Independence contains the phrase, “a decent respect for the opinions of mankind.” This indicates that world opinion matters.

At the same time, the president is sworn to protect the Constitution. In practical terms, this means protecting the physical security of the United States “against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Protecting the principles of the declaration and the Constitution are meaningless without regime preservation and defending the nation.

While this all makes for an interesting seminar in political philosophy, presidents — and others who have taken the same oath — do not have the luxury of the contemplative life. They must act on their oaths, and inaction is an action. Former U.S. President George W. Bush knew that he did not know the threat, and that in order to carry out his oath, he needed very rapidly to find out the threat. He could not know that torture would work, but he clearly did not feel that he had the right to avoid it.

Consider this example. Assume you knew that a certain individual knew the location of a nuclear device planted in an American city. The device would kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, but he individual refused to divulge the information. Would anyone who had sworn the oath have the right not to torture the individual? Torture might or might not work, but either way, would it be moral to protect the individual’s rights while allowing hundreds of thousands to die? It would seem that in this case, torture is a moral imperative; the rights of the one with the information cannot transcend the life of a city.

Torture in the Real World

But here is the problem: You would not find yourself in this situation. Knowing a bomb had been planted, knowing who knew that the bomb had been planted, and needing only to apply torture to extract this information is not how the real world works. Post-9/11, the United States knew much less about the extent of the threat from al Qaeda. This hypothetical sort of torture was not the issue.

Discrete information was not needed, but situational awareness. The United States did not know what it needed to know, it did not know who was of value and who wasn’t, and it did not know how much time it had. Torture thus was not a precise solution to a specific problem: It became an intelligence-gathering technique. The nature of the problem the United States faced forced it into indiscriminate intelligence gathering. When you don’t know what you need to know, you cast a wide net. And when torture is included in the mix, it is cast wide as well. In such a case, you know you will be following many false leads — and when you carry torture with you, you will be torturing people with little to tell you. Moreover, torture applied by anyone other than well-trained, experienced personnel (who are in exceptionally short supply) will only compound these problems, and make the practice less productive.

Defenders of torture frequently seem to believe that the person in custody is known to have valuable information, and that this information must be forced out of him. His possession of the information is proof of his guilt. The problem is that unless you have excellent intelligence to begin with, you will become engaged in developing baseline intelligence, and the person you are torturing may well know nothing at all. Torture thus becomes not only a waste of time and a violation of decency, it actually undermines good intelligence. After a while, scooping up suspects in a dragnet and trying to extract intelligence becomes a substitute for competent intelligence techniques — and can potentially blind the intelligence service. This is especially true as people will tell you what they think you want to hear to make torture stop.

Critics of torture, on the other hand, seem to assume the torture was brutality for the sake of brutality instead of a desperate attempt to get some clarity on what might well have been a catastrophic outcome. The critics also cannot know the extent to which the use of torture actually prevented follow-on attacks. They assume that to the extent that torture was useful, it was not essential; that there were other ways to find out what was needed. In the long run, they might have been correct. But neither they, nor anyone else, had the right to assume in late 2001 that there was a long run. One of the things that wasn’t known was how much time there was.

The U.S. Intelligence Failure

The endless argument over torture, the posturing of both critics and defenders, misses the crucial point. The United States turned to torture because it has experienced a massive intelligence failure reaching back a decade. The U.S. intelligence community simply failed to gather sufficient information on al Qaeda’s intentions, capability, organization and personnel. The use of torture was not part of a competent intelligence effort, but a response to a massive intelligence failure.

That failure was rooted in a range of miscalculations over time. There was the public belief that the end of the Cold War meant the United States didn’t need a major intelligence effort, a point made by the late Sen. Daniel Moynihan. There were the intelligence people who regarded Afghanistan as old news. There was the Torricelli amendment that made recruiting people with ties to terrorist groups illegal without special approval. There were the Middle East experts who could not understand that al Qaeda was fundamentally different from anything seen before. The list of the guilty is endless, and ultimately includes the American people, who always seem to believe that the view of the world as a dangerous place is something made up by contractors and bureaucrats.

Bush was handed an impossible situation on Sept. 11, after just nine months in office. The country demanded protection, and given the intelligence shambles he inherited, he reacted about as well or badly as anyone else might have in the situation. He used the tools he had, and hoped they were good enough.

The problem with torture — as with other exceptional measures — is that it is useful, at best, in extraordinary situations. The problem with all such techniques in the hands of bureaucracies is that the extraordinary in due course becomes the routine, and torture as a desperate stopgap measure becomes a routine part of the intelligence interrogator’s tool kit.

At a certain point, the emergency was over. U.S. intelligence had focused itself and had developed an increasingly coherent picture of al Qaeda, with the aid of allied Muslim intelligence agencies, and was able to start taking a toll on al Qaeda. The war had become routinized, and extraordinary measures were no longer essential. But the routinization of the extraordinary is the built-in danger of bureaucracy, and what began as a response to unprecedented dangers became part of the process. Bush had an opportunity to move beyond the emergency. He didn’t.

If you know that an individual is loaded with information, torture can be a useful tool. But if you have so much intelligence that you already know enough to identify the individual is loaded with information, then you have come pretty close to winning the intelligence war. That’s not when you use torture. That’s when you simply point out to the prisoner that, “for you the war is over.” You lay out all you already know and how much you know about him. That is as demoralizing as freezing in a cell — and helps your interrogators keep their balance.

U.S. President Barack Obama has handled this issue in the style to which we have become accustomed, and which is as practical a solution as possible. He has published the memos authorizing torture to make this entirely a Bush administration problem while refusing to prosecute anyone associated with torture, keeping the issue from becoming overly divisive. Good politics perhaps, but not something that deals with the fundamental question.

The fundamental question remains unanswered, and may remain unanswered. When a president takes an oath to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States,” what are the limits on his obligation? We take the oath for granted. But it should be considered carefully by anyone entering this debate, particularly for presidents.

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  • BTJoe112

    Some one you love is buried in a box.He or She will die in 1 hour.The guy who buried them is in the room with you tied up.The only way he will talk is from Harsh interrogation or what I would call it extreme torture. Would you do it?
    Everyone against torture.I will see you at your loved ones funeral. Me and my whole family.

    • GregGS

      Some like Mcain, say torture doesn’t get good intel…
      Someone’s not doing it right. If a family member of mine were at risk… the person mentioned above would be in
      pain, and damaged throughout all body parts, but his tongue, so he he could give the good intel some say you can’t get. I would get it.

    • aboutTObegin

      roger that…..agreed…..my family and I would be at your loved ones funeral as well unless you were stinking libertard, anti american, non birth certificate producing usurper!

      -aTb

    • mike3481

      What would I do?

      Peel him like a grape.

  • http://www.myspace.com/methushelah Demogorgon

    Real ‘torture’ results in either horrible physical disfigurement and/or death, at the very least it might be construed to result in permanent psychological disorders (i.e. insanity). Nothing mentioned in this article rises to the level of this – the definitive definition of torture. I could elaborate more on other inconsistencies in this article; but I will leave it to others to do this.

  • Lottie

    Tourcher comes in many ways and has diffrent effects. Like the beheading of our people that get caught or kidnapped. The constant information of terrorist camps in our country by muslims, film clips of their kids growing up to kill all non-believers. The special treatment such as areas that the muslims have to pray, while our Christian faith get slowly pushed out or to the wayside. The way our education has been indocrating our kids, losing our jobs, homes, corupt government, they lie, plot, steal, from us yet the stand right their and smile like what are you going to do about it. We have their attention now from the tea parties. Lets turn up the heat and keep them scared and when they start running cathe them and tar and feather them like we used to do to these kind of people. There something to be said like the GOOD OLD DAYS. Just a little to be said.

  • Dave the Dentist

    How about Impeach Obama Parties next, instead of Tea Parties

    • aboutTObegin

      how about do it NOW! the congress wont do it…the people have too!!!

      -aTb

  • Lottie

    :arrow: Dave the Dentist. It has gone far past that. Unless we take very strong action soon we are doomed look at the rest of the world they are already lost. Its to bad that people could have paid attention long ago. We are on our way to civil war we will have people with diffrent agendas. The people were asleep and voted the devil into our country. We will be facing our enemy soon. I to am guilty of not paying attention. I didn’t know the real importance of voting the right people to represent us. I have been on both sides of the fence not knowing that it was enabling our goverment with their own agend to take our power away.

    • falconfixer

      Our side should plan on winning by surviving the coming storm. Guns, water, food and a good mental attitude will outlast the obamatons going blithely off the cliff.

  • Sully

    So the failures of the past create the ‘issues’ of today.
    What a concept.
    This guy must be like brilliant or sumthin.

    And fuck “moral experiment”.
    If ‘enemy combatant’ is their job description they should be dead already.
    Fuck ‘uncomfortable’ being “terrible”.

    • http://snooperreport.com Mark Harvey (aka Snooper)

      BINGO DAMMIT!!! Thanks! For a minute I thought I was losing what little mind I have remaining.

  • Rudemeister

    As far as the enemy combatants in Gitmo are concerned, I think any valuable information that could have been extracted by politically correct means has already been accomplished. Having said all that, there are many there that are clearly guilty. This is also evidenced by the released detainees which have returned to Jihad. Where are the military trials they should have answered to? Many of them should have been tried and shot. It is easy for the Europeans to insult us over these issues. But, what if those planes had flown into Versailles? You think they would still be all namby pamby?

    Torture is an instrument of last resort. If our Republic is fighting an enemy with one hand tied behind our backs, the Jihadists have an advantage.

    The US has shipped some of those guys to other Muslim countries that are our allies for interrogation. This surely terrifies those detainees that are getting TV, 3 hots and a life better than their cave dwelling past.

    Maybe the US should create a new island nation that is “Sovereign” which we could totally control. We ship any big problems we have there to escape the purview of our liberal friends. It would be beyond the constraints of our “legal” system. There we would do what is necessary.

  • BTJoe112

    When we flew those things(people?) over to Getmo they should have just tilted the plane up and let them slide right out of the cargo hold into the ocean. But I guess we needed the info. That helped save American lives.

    • aboutTObegin

      and that it did….until this usurper got into office…and the first terrorist act that was deemed a terrorist act the first day( and even the Taliban claimed responsibility….) was reclassed to a disgruntled worker going and killing fellow co-workers…..go figure….

      -aTb

  • http://snooperreport.com Mark Harvey (aka Snooper)

    Is it me or was this author a libtard trying to be conservative in thought?

    • SgtJenz

      Perhaps a little Snooper. The description he used for the torture sounded an awful lot like the SERE training I went through back in the day. You did too.
      Waterboarding was part of the drill, of course in those days it was called something else. And being cold, deprived of food and sleep was all part of it.

      Torture is ripping somebodies fingernails off, or shoving bamboo splinters up them. Torture is taking a drill to someones foot or wrist or teeth. Torture is having your nuts stomped on or breaking knee caps.
      Need I go on?

    • aboutTObegin

      or driving nails through someones privates…..
      fucken waste of life libertards!!!

      -aTb

  • vincenzo4

    It’s interesting how we chastise ourselves for actually being productive, and have never once thought of what it must have been like to be a victim of these animals. Not one naysayer has ever mentioned the hostages, the American and Coalition Forces, the Blackwater kids, all taken hostage and or prisoner.

    Those who have had the most excruciating unspeakble things done to them before they are either terminated or simply die from the medical condition caused by such barbarism.

    Hollywood, that unmittigated fuckhead (oops there I go again with that word) Bill Maher, no one has any concern for pursuing these people, all we are interested in is obstructing and neutralizing every defense or advantage we have as a free people.

    Bottom line is the Bush Administration and those in power finally took measures that were absolutely necessary.

    Has any one of you even considered for one moment what would have occured if the morning of 9/11 was a full frontal attack on this country instead of a few airliners???????

  • Don’t bitch about the heat

    The greatest time in this country was during WW2. Spys were shot. Traitors were shot. and antiwar persons were medic, most pretty dam good.
    If you didn’t like what this gov was doing you were most likly a commie.
    Now where are most of these people? In collages, schools and in politics the rest are jounalist.
    We now can take this country back by force if me have to.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA

    • pub

      Well said. That’s when we still had a survival instinct.

  • SlimReed

    Let’s go back to the singularity of the argument, and that is the Constitution and its guarantees of rights to citizens. The Constitution does not enumerate rights to non-citizens, and although the Declaration of Independence may call for the “respect for the opinions of mankind,” it does not proffer to any a right to call himself a citizen of the United States. American citizens have rights under our constitutional law, and non-citizens have none. So to premise that anything that might in the press be made to resemble torture is a violation of a foreign jihadi’s Constitutional rights is the beginning of a fallacious argument.

  • http://patdollard.com Joe Average

    :arrow:

    Is there any feeling that WE the Patriots are the protection from arrest of amyone that Obama claims broke interrogation laws?

    In other words, will WE stand with the Bush officials and prevent any arrests and stop Obama, with arms if necessary?

    I say YES.

  • Trialdog

    First, I do not consider any of the identified interrogation methods “torture.”
    Second, when the mistaken premises of the article are peeled away, President Bush comes out looking good.
    Contrary to what the article implies, the criticized interrogation methods were only used on the two or three individuals that had important crucial information and did not become routine or a substitute for intelligence gathering.
    The article states: “Bush had the opportunity to move beyond the emergency. He didn’t.” This is not true. The White House had to approve of the methods used and the individuals it was used on. The White House stopped using the methods shortly after they were used.
    The article states: “But the Declaration of Independence contains the phrase, ‘a decent respect for the opinions of mankind.’ This indicates that world opinion matters.” No, it doesn’t, and the Declaration of Independence is not the Constitution. Can you imagine Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and Washington worrying about the opinions of despotic thugs, dictators, or Islamists on how our civilized mankind should interpret our Constitution?
    The article states: “You would not find yourself in this situation. Knowing a bomb had been planted, knowing who knew it had been planted, and needing only to apply torture to extract this information is not how the real world works.” Wrong. That is exactly how the interrogation worked. The planes that hit the Trade Center were flying bombs. We learned that there was an attack planned to hit another city with hijacked flying bombs. The intelligence we obtained from the people who knew how the bombs were to be put in motion saved American lives.
    The article states: “…Obama has handled this situation in the style to which we have become accustomed…” True. He has handling it in a completely political manner designed to destroy his enemies, Republicans. Obama will misuse any issue, misstate any fact, and mislead any person in order to centralize power within the Democratic party. Rather than lead by stating the facts, he only released a portion of information on the interrogations – the portion he thinks is most damaging to Bush.
    The author of the article massages general Obama/DNC/al Qaeda talking points that are now accepted as fact by their sycophantic press.
    Stick with the facts and you will know that Bush behaved in an entirely appropriate manner on this issue.

  • http://patdollard.com Pat

    No wonder the libtards hate us. We cannot be spun!

  • Moultrie

    Good post and great comments…IMO, George Friedman from Stratfor is really good at self promotion and seems to be an apologist for the fool Obama. The fault lies with the neutralization of US Intelligence services and we know who is to blame for that, our own Drat/Communist. GWB did the right thing to protect US Citizens in a time of difficult circumstances.