Obama, Torture, Memos . . . And The Real Issue No One Is Talking About

April 29th, 2009 (52) Posted By TPS.

constitution-rip

by TPS

Scenario 1: The country stood on the brink of war, and his policies, both in the military and diplomatic spheres, helped trigger combat that ultimately killed thousands of men and triggered enmity that lasts to this day . . .

Scenario 2: The country stood on the brink of war, and his policies helped position the opposing side into firing the first shot that ultimately killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and led to the implantation of “total war” on his own homeland . . .

Scenario 3: He thought he was doing the right thing. His country had been attacked without warning, and thousands of Americans were killed and wounded. Was another attack imminent? Everyone thought so. He moved to act, quickly . . .

Scenario 4: He believed he was protecting national interests when he signed orders to prepare for the invasion of another country. Unable to undertake the effort in timely fashion, it fell to his successor to launch the endeavor, which had international repercussions and killed and wounded thousands.

President Obama’s recent decision to release “the torture memos” (itself a loaded description) has lighted a fire under the 24/7 news cycle. His tortured (no pun intended) flip-flop that leaves it to his Justice Department whether to prosecute Bush officials who sanctioned “torture” has thrown gasoline onto that fire. The response of the chattering class has been to debate the issue of whether waterboarding or putting an insect into a terrorist’s cage is torture.

“The Bush Administrations tortured enemy combatants!”

“No, it wasn’t torture because . . .”

This argument, sophomoric in its development and imbecilic in its implications, is better suited to the high school classroom or some low level policy institute. Why? Because it is not the real issue that lies smoldering within the wreck that is Obama’s decision to release this critically sensitive information and then perhaps prosecute others for implementing it.

Let me explain the primary issue by returning to the scenarios that opened this essay. In Scenario 1, President James K. Polk undertook diplomatic and military efforts (including sending an army into land claimed by Mexico) that most historians today argue was intended to touch off a war with Mexico. He succeeded. (Polk wanted land that stood between us and California; Mexico owned it and refused to sell it to us.)

In Scenario 2, President Lincoln went on to suspend Habeus Corpus (that means he arrested American citizens and held them indefinitely without charging them with a crime). Lincoln imprisoned Maryland politicians when he was worried they might vote for succession, imprisoned and later exiled a Democratic Congressman when he spoke out against Lincoln and the war (recall the First Amendment), and condoned the implementation of what some historians refer to as “total war” when General Sherman burned Atlanta to the ground and slashed and burned his way to the sea, and General Sheridan undertook similar action in the Shenandoah Valley. These examples are but the very tip of the Lincoln iceberg of questionable policy decisions and blatantly extra-constitutional actions of our most beloved former commander-in-chief.

In Scenario 3, Franklin D. Roosevelt rounded up and imprisoned thousands of Japanese Americans and confiscated their property without any real evidence that they were about to commit any crimes. He went on to firebomb Japanese cities in raids that killed more people than the dropping of the atom bombs. He did the same in Germany, intentionally targeting civilian populations and sleeping quarters for those who worked in the factories. FDR’s directives directly killed hundreds of thousands of women and children.

In Scenario 4, President Dwight D. Eisenhower had the CIA train, equip, and prepare for the invasion of Cuba because he did not like their government. President John F. Kennedy implemented the plan, and then failed to support it at the last minute, leaving thousands to be killed and wounded.

I teach my students that when someone throws a rock in the water (argues a main point), don’t watch the rock (distraction), watch the ripples (the downstream effects). The crux of most issues is rarely the one being publicly discussed. Almost always it is instead the effect of the underlying action(s)—the ripple—that one must be wary of.

So . . . why is the decision to open the door to prosecuting former Bush administration officials important? Was it because they condoned torture? No, even if what they did was torture (which in my opinion it clearly was not).

The key here—the ripple—is that President Obama and his team have edged open the door that might one day eliminate our sacred history of peaceful presidential transitions.

Never in our history have we sought to prosecute prior administrations for policy decisions with which successor administrations disagree. Change questionable policies? Sure. Debate them behind closed doors? Yes. Argue them in public with force and clarity and reason? Absolutely. Criminalize them because of political differences? Never.

Obama’s actions seek to potentially punish good, honest, hardworking attorneys and others (some who put their lives on the line each day) for honest, legally sound, constitutionally reasoned policy decisions backed Congressional and Presidential oversight. Obama and the Leftists who support him differ with these decisions. Now they seek to criminalize them for political gain over their adversaries.

They do this in Venezuela, Nicaragua, and other banana republics. They imprison their predecessors and confiscate property, all in the name of political differences. We do not, and we have never done so.

As my off-the-cuff examples aptly demonstrate, we would be hard pressed to find a single president who has not made policy decisions that succeeding administrations can and will differ with—sometimes vehemently so. Should we have prosecuted Polk and his generals and diplomats? Maybe we should have imprisoned Lincoln? President Truman could have put FDR in the dock and charged him with war crimes. But wait! Truman would have been indicted for dropping the atom bombs by incoming President Dwight Eisenhower, right? But wait! Eisenhower could have been charged by Kennedy with planning the Bay of Pigs, and perhaps even for conducting war crimes during World War II; after all, his D-Day bombing runs killed and wounded thousands of innocent French civilians. But wait! . . . (Johnson and lying about Vietnam, Nixon and Watergate, Ford for pardoning Nixon, Carter for . . . Well, you get the point).

The sacred door of trust, constitutionality, and civility that Obama has now opened can never be closed again if he decides to walk through it. You would have more luck unbaking a cake.

If outgoing presidents who faced especially tough situations (i.e., war and the terrible decisions those entail for the defense of our country) are faced with opponents calling for their heads on a platter, and we establish a precedent for indicting them, how willing will a president be to voluntarily give up power? Walk that back a step. How willing will he and his subordinates be to do everything they need and must do to keep us safe (and win major wars) if policy differences might land them in jail and bankrupt their families with legal bills? How many Americans will die as a result?

That, my friends, is the ripple in the water. The slope Obama and his Justice Department are teetering upon is not only steep, but slathered in thick ice without a piton or pickaxe in sight to stop the slide should they shove our peaceful transition precedent over the precipice.

Pray they do not do so.

P.S. There is a subset ripple here: I believe Obama and Biden know we are going to get hit again—Biden has said as much publicly. By airing these memos and flashing torture photos around the world (yes, they are planning that, too), they will try to make the case that when we are struck, this is why the peaceful misunderstood Muslims did it—to avenge Bush torture. That, in turn, will allow them to . . . blame it on the Bush Administration. But that is grist for another article.

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  • Marty

    My god, TPS I never thought of this. Of course, why would you turn over power if you were going to go to jail for political reasons? The issue is not was or was it not torture at all. Brilliant analysis. Thank you. Again.

  • http://bd41f1d0e3b34a3887607611a481ade3 Monkeysdad(Anxiously investing in Matresses)

    Clinton Administration: Ruby Ridge, Waco, Elian Gonzales.

  • Snowman

    Brilliant article. Let’s not forget that the release of these memos will help provide cover for BO when we get hit again and we do nothing. He will point to Bush policies as the reason we got attacked again, then also point out they are the reason we cannot fight back. BO will tell us we must turn the other cheek. Of course the cycle of attacks will then take a huge uptick, but at least the world will like us!

    Now that the dems have their majority in Congress, I don’t think it will be too long before BO makes the argument that in this time of crisis he cannot be subject to term limits (see FDR).

  • http://www.myspace.com/methushelah Demogorgon

    This is one hell of an article TPS, as I write this I’m listening to the moron drone on at his’ day 100 press conference (via the Mark Levin show). God I hate this stupid [censored] bastard.

    • http://thedametruth.net Dame

      Demo, you’ve got a stronger stomach than I do. I can’t listen, read or see anything about it.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/TriForLife3 OtrockO

    Insightful analysis.

    TPS……feeding intel from inside the Marxist OODA Loop…

  • GregGS

    Every day I read something deeper, and the navy seals come to mind.

    The only easy day was yesterday!

  • DesignR

    Absolutely spot on.

    Pandora’s Box is OPEN.

    From now on we need to fight, and I mean ‘bloody fight’, for every election and vote. That is, if we can ever get back to trusting the vote process. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to do it with any sense of assurance.

    Is it time to outlaw the Left as anti-Constitution and therefore seditious at the least and traitorous in the whole?

    That’s what they are saying about us.
    The first with the handcuffs on their opponent wins.

    To the Victor go the Spoils.

    • DesignR

      This is now a vicious, murderous, street brawl with the winner ending only as a survivor.

    • http://patdollard.com Joe Average

      :arrow: DesignR and Pat
      There will be no more elections….Obama has set his Kingship in Place.

      Look for Crisis and Suspension of Constitution with in days to weeks… He wouldn’t go after Bush if he didn’t have it planned out already. :gun: :gun: :gun:

    • aboutTObegin

      that happens…then then there are gonna be problems that I know the libertards would not know how to handle and would utilize their grip on their resources( hence FBI,NSA, the SS, etc etc ) to protect them!!! The only question remains, are their any true Constitution loving Americans in those organizations anymore??? we shall see if the time ever comes…

      -aTb

    • fred

      If it comes to a bloody fight, I will drag my old geezer body into the fray. A lot of Leftists need killin’.

  • dacoelec

    Lock and load, people….. this is just the beginning….. I just hope we can save this country.

  • http://patdollard.com Joe Average

    :arrow: ALL

    In the PS of his opinion piece, TPS states the obvious of us getting attacked again… I agree, we will. And the real cause is Obama and Biden making sure it happens to weaken the Country, this is Absolute TREASON and TERRORISM…..

    FUCK, SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING TO STOP HIM…..

    • American Woman

      Im also thinking they could blame the “right wing extreamist” for any such attacks. The left blamed 9/11 on Bush/Cheney and J.Nappy released the statement at the same time of the tea parties, the MSM saying the tea parties were ANTI! government.
      They will say this is a Timothy McVeight repeat homegrown terrorist.

      I would like to the state Att. Generals from red states ban together with petitions from citizens prosecuting obongo/admin and congress for treason against the constitution!! Please people get out and start going to local functions and talk to the polititions campaigning!! talk about the 10th amendment!! The only elections we have left are the local level.

  • http://WorldsBestResumes.com Judith, typical White Ohioan

    Demogorgan, make that two :twisted: :twisted: I can’t even look at him and stupid her. What a sea of slobber surrounds these two nonentities.

    • http://thedametruth.net Dame

      Judith, well put. However, I feel you are too kind ;)

  • http://www.Dissent-From-Day-One.com DissentFromDayOneDOTcom

    I heard Ogabe is releasing the pictures just before Memorial Day …. and that he will be traveling to the Middle East at the same time.

    Who the FUCK is the puppetmaster behind all this? It ain’t President Affirmative Action.

    • http://patdollard.com Joe Average

      Obama’s going to fly to a “safe haven” knowing that an “imminent” attack is coming???

    • American Woman

      Ah yes this must be the “major speech” his admin has been talking about. When he went to turkey people thought maybe that was the ‘speech’ but they said it wasnt. This has been planned

      And of course the symbolism is true to his nature. A knife in the back of traditional America.

    • aboutTObegin

      its the radical terrorists that gave him all his money during his campaign….did he ever divulge the source….NO, it’s obvious it came from HAMAS and all their like…why do you think HAMAS and the rest of the radicals endorsed the usurper???

      -aTb

  • Bob

    Will the next attack on our soil be the prelude to marshal law, gun confiscations, suspension of the Constitution?

    • http://thedametruth.net Dame

      Of course. Biden told us it was coming within 6 months…we’ve got 3 more left and it’s going to be a long hot summer. God help us all.

  • GF

    Releasing the pictures is foolish. If there is another attack it will be the end of the Obama administration.

  • http://patdollard.com Joe Average

    FLU COMMENT….
    Has anyone read Tom Clancy’s RAINBOW SIX???

    • Montizzle

      Yeah, it’s a good book; shares a healthy mentality. I’ve reflected on that myself. But I wouldn’t consider it. Though, I could be shortchanging myself if I don’t put more thought into such an act.

      As of right now, personally, I think it’s too early to consider this a scenario similar to “Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six”.

  • Joseph

    The real issue is that you do not know what you are talking about.

    Living within the confines of duty, honor, and country; it is real easy to see the boundries.

    Civilians never learn those boundries.

    • http://snooperreport.com Mark L Harvey (aka Snooper)

      That requires an explanation. WTF are you talking about?

    • American Woman

      Please explain what you are talking about. If you are going to call someone out please back up your argument otherwise you come across as trollish.

    • Hardball1911

      Your comment is directed at people who have lived within the confines of duty, honor, and country.

      You are speaking directly to people who have spent time in boots, and in service of this country, as well as those who support us.

      While I can agree it is easy to see the boundaries, I can also state with a certain degree of accuracy that with the current brand of Socialism that is rising in this country, those boundaries are null and void. The attempts to take this country away from personal accountability and toward an everybody gets everything for free mentality is exactly where those boundaries become null and void. The current administration is working hard to achieve that.

      You know nothing of being in service to your country if you place the “civilian” label on others because it shows that you are part of the direct problem and not the direct solution. Why? Because you deem yourself better than “civilian”. Sorry chief, that dog don’t hunt. Bear in mind that the civilians know what boundaries exist in their lives a hell of a lot better than anyone in service. They pay taxes. They suffer the consequences of inept government. They lose their individual freedoms. They get placed out of the jobs that are eliminated due to a company’s propensity to stay profitable. Your supposed status of “other than civilian” places you squarely in the category that you claim the civilians are in. You know absolutely nothing other than what your immediate supervisors allow you to know. You also are immune to the ramifications of piss poor politics.

      I further my comment by allowing you this. If you truly understood duty, honor, and country, your comment would have been completely different. Duty: You have a duty to the “civilians” to protect and defend the Constitution, even if it should place your physical body in harms way. That duty comes from the sacred oath attached to every federal job, including the military, law enforcement, and policy making government. You did take an oath, right? Honor: It is an honor, or a privilege, to serve the “civilians”, the people, and protect and defend their Constitution. It was handed us by God, and written by man to document the times such as these that tyranny and greed overwhelm proper and correct. Country: It is every citizen who makes the country, not boundaries and borders, or did you not learn that in a civics class?

      You, my mistaken friend, have quite a bit to learn about who is, and who isn’t able to see the big picture. You should be proud that there are Americans such as those who come here and risk social rejection in order to preserve the country’s way of life. You may not agree with everything politically, and that’s fine. We still have the freedom to discuss politics. For now. But don’t ever think that you can get away with the notion that you think you know better than a mere “civilian”. Some of those civilians have more training than you will ever dream to have. Some of those civilians have walked the walk in previous lives. Some of those civilians might just see you as part of the very same mechanism that is threatening their very way of lives, their freedoms. That is not where you want to be categorized, I promise.

    • http://www.Dissent-From-Day-One.com DissentFromDayOneDOTcom

      Joseph, Hardball’s reply is what we call a monumental beatdown. Pick up the pieces and move yo arse out.

  • http://worddrum.wordpress.com/ Word-Drum

    Outstanding TPS! :beer:

    You explain the sick ubiquitous repetitions of the word “torture.” You, Pat and the regime are ahead of the curve, and the view is frightening.

    My eyes are open. :gun:

    (Nice try assholes, were on to your game.)

    If only libtards had the imagination to know what the next attack will entail.

  • Jarhead68

    Great analysis. Wish I had thought of it myself. :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:
    You deserve a six-pack.

  • WarBicycle

    For some reason I get the impression that someone is pulling Obama’s strings.

    • DesignR

      :mrgreen: :beer:

  • http://snooperreport.com Mark L Harvey (aka Snooper)

    This is EXACTLY what we were talking about last week on the Jihadi Killer Hour. SPOT ON.

  • AriG

    Excellent analysis. One of the best.

    Among other things, I fear that Obama did not even read these memos but outsourced the task to his loyal partisan staff, who are clearly driven by their overriding partisan agenda.

    The memos thus far published, state that less extrusive techniques – were tried and had failed, and only then were “enhanced techniques” – used, and worked extremely well and produced an abundance of useful intel – which likely saved American lives.

    Obama’s reference to British methods in WW2 is completley off base and factually wrong.

    Does anyone in his half-baked administration even “research” his data de jour before he uses it to support his obvious partisan positions?

    Obama is a disaster and it will only get worse.

  • fred

    Outstanding article. I saw this very issue clearly when the controversy was developing and evolving. This is called proscription. It was done in almost every other government and empire in history, save ours. But we have now crossed that Rubicon.

    We are, whether most people are aware of it or not, gradually, inevitably sliding towards civil war. That the Marxists have been so willing to go down this road of proscribing prior administrations means that they are indeed into vengeance rather than good governance. And our only recourse, to restore the Republic and Constitution, is to finally have it out with these people. We have been building towards this moment since after the Bolsheviks took over Russia. It accelerated during the 1960′s with the mutation of the Leninists into the Gramscian New Left. Now those people and their younger cohorts are in charge of the country. However, they don’t have our weapons and training. The military hates them and their leaders.

    I hope we can avert that and win elections in 2010 and 2012 and beyond. Rebellion and civil war should be the absolute last resort, when all other means of redress are sought and exhausted. But, if the Left wants to get it on, then let’s oblige them. But first let’s not let them confiscate our weapons and ammo. Just as the New England militias labored to hide their powder, weapons and shot from Gen. Thomas Gage, who was sent there to confiscate them, so we too much endeavor to preserve ours from the predations of a tyrant.

    • DesignR

      Bravo. :beer: :gun:

    • Vanessa

      Oue founding fathers knew that power corrupts and the first gun they seize under whatever rouse they think up is the shot heard round the world and the beginning of the end of them.

      You are at the mercy of fools without the means to protect yourself.

  • rise up

    I smell an uprising, so lets talk, how do we express ourselves clearly to get our opinions, and such heard? civil outbreak? riots? walking up to BO in person and stomping his face in? people we can talk about this, but we also have to back up what we say, guys its now or never, ive been thinking of ways to be heard. what do we have to do? ill be the first to step up. :gun:

    • aboutTObegin

      you start by recruiting for ACTIVE (www.accdf.com), then organize to disrupt EVERY LAST ONE of the libertards get togethers and rallies!!! thats the start…once this begins to happen all around the country, then of course the MSM machine will begin to turn against us and we will have what we need for publicity…we can manipulate the media just as well…just have to be imaginative in how we do it! and we have to be relentless in our pursuit….are you willing to go to jail for a ‘cooling off’ period? what are you willing to risk in defense of our beloved Constitution and Capitalism????ask yourself that because only you can answer it!

      -aTb

    • http://www.Dissent-From-Day-One.com DissentFromDayOneDOTcom

      I’m willing to risk it ALL.

      I have psychologically let go of job, house, and money. It’s the last hold the despots have over us: our fear of losing the plasma.

      F*ck the plasma…..let’s roll over these libtards like the colonists did to the redcoats.

  • Minuteman1

    The more I read, the more I see, the more I dread tomorrow.

    They’ve pushed very fast, and they’ve gotten away with EVERYTHING so far. This has only emboldened them. I expect a real PUSH into totalitarianism within days. Only question is whether or not we’ll push back. It’s hard to physically fight politicians in DC from California. Where the fuck are the generals???

  • http://www.Dissent-From-Day-One.com DissentFromDayOneDOTcom

    Minuteman1, I’m in the DC area……we got your back brother. Just be ready in the land of fruits and nuts.

  • http://patdollard.com Joe Average

    :arrow: Pat
    There is something about Obama going to Islamic country to ‘make anouncement’.

    What if Obama is planning to let Israel get attacked and announce the US will not help Israel…

    Joe-the-mouth has already alluded to the US getting attacked with Obama’s help. We’ll be questioned for the first 6months while we’re looking the other way (right-wing extremists).

  • Sully

    So actions have consequences… interesting concept.
    Sad that the first time a child might be exposed to it is high school… if ever.

  • Tim Roesch

    Does anyone know what percentage of US combat resources are presently out of country, specifically in Europe and Afghanistan?

    I actually think the attack will start on them and track across to US (both us and US).

    This GPS painting thing (census) is the final thought that has crystallized mine.

    Why do you need exact locations?
    You do if you are using precise munitions. Small ones. Let us say, micro ones…

    • http://patdollard.com Joe Average

      :arrow: Tim Roesch
      I have been working with some GIS programs. Census stuff, climate crap, and all are already on some of the government GIS systems for mapping.

      I think one of the best Geograhic programs is Google Earth. I know that the Defense Dept. has had a problem with Google Earth showing the GPS coordinates of US Military Bases.

      Google Earth has this item called “Street View” that gives a little ‘bubble’ that is a 360-dgreee camera view taken at that address.

      Here is how Google Earth is being abused. There was a news story a few months back about some town government using Google Earth’s “Street View” in the Code Enforcement Dept. to try to disqualify person’s on a petition that the Mayor/Council in the town were trying to stop.

      “Street View” gives a little ‘bubble’ that is a 360-dgreee camera view taken at that address.

      In this instance, that voter’s they were trying to disqualify were all with white/jewish last names in the 4 conservative districts. They were trying to see if they could match persons/autos & plate#s/mailbox names to the voter petition at those addresses.
      This failed for City when “Street View” proved to have old data as much as 4-6 months and they were trying to remove ‘current residents’ that had just built in new housing edition and a new area of McMansions that were just built. I know there was talk of lawsuit against this city.

      I know there is a fear that Islamics are using Google Earth, TomTom, Garmin and others to set up future attacks. With the ACORN GPS ability, they would have even more accurate data.

  • prestonbrooks

    Obama is following the game plan of every modern revolutionary (Castro, Lenin, Mao, Hitler, etc). First, you assume power ‘legally’. Next, you imprison the opposition. Then you backstab your backers (rich democrats on Wall St. and in banking). Then, through a pretext (think Reichstag fire), you use the legal machinery of the state to declare Martial Law. Next, you purge the military and intelligence organs and replace them with your own cadres (Himmler, SS). With a handy, self-written directive your Party rubber stamps, you are now Dictator and Absolute Ruler. The career guys cower over their pensions and pony up. Then you move along to the group you have selected to demonize (Jews) like, say conservatives and Christian folk whose houses your Cadre has already painted with GPS co-ordinates. At the appropriate time, you round them up for The Camps (Work Makes Us Free). Unsatiated, you lust for more power all the while your Police State is creating rivers of blood in your own country. You go for World Domination (UN). Interestingly, Hitler was not born a natural speaker. Witnesses have reported that when speaking before a crowd, he was as if posessed. (see link). What first struck me way back about Obama was his inability to string 2 sentences together in conversation, yet his public Oratory has caused pure rapture in his followers. This is a hallmark of Demonic Posession in these circumstances. The greatest secret of the Third Reich, occultism, was discovered by the Allies at he end of WW2. It was abandoned as a course of public investigation due to its horrors. Barak Hussein Obama is, I believe, due to his personality, posessed and empowered by demonic forces. There is only 1 thing between Obama and Absolute Power: He has not yet disarmed America as Hitler in Germany did after attaining the Chancellorship. If Obama is what I believe he is, only God or his own hubris will stop him. I do not believe anything short of a well-led counterrevolution at this point can halt the descent into Madness.

    http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo_satanism_of_hitler.html

    • GRIZZ

      Thanks prestonbrooks,I believe that we are not referred to in Revelations,or really even by the ancient prophets,because we are made irrelevant.This could be because we are at war with ourselves.Many things intrigue me however.Isaiah wrote God will bring an “army from the end of Heaven” to destroy ancient Babylon.Babylon being Iraq has not been totally destroyed by our troops.Yet

    • prestonbrooks

      :neutral: Unfortunately, I tend to agree. If a remnant of us survive to keep the Constitution alive, we will have won, even tho we’ll be living pretty primitively…