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San Diego Residents Warned They Will Be Fined For Discussing Bible In Home



May 23, 2009 25 Comments ›› Pat Dollard

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WND:

A San Diego pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a county official and warned they will face escalating fines if they continue to hold Bible studies in their home.

The couple, whose names are being withheld until a demand letter can be filed on their behalf, told their attorney a county government employee knocked on their door on Good Friday, asking a litany of questions about their Tuesday night Bible studies, which are attended by approximately 15 people.

“Do you have a regular weekly meeting in your home? Do you sing? Do you say ‘amen’?” the official reportedly asked. “Do you say, ‘Praise the Lord’?”

The pastor’s wife answered yes.

She says she was then told, however, that she must stop holding “religious assemblies” until she and her husband obtain a Major Use Permit from the county, a permit that often involves traffic and environmental studies, compliance with parking and sidewalk regulations and costs that top tens of thousands of dollars.

And if they fail to pay for the MUP, the county official reportedly warned, the couple will be charged escalating fines beginning at $100, then $200, $500, $1000, “and then it will get ugly.”

Dean Broyles of the Western Center for Law & Policy, which has been retained to represent the couple, told WND the county’s action not only violates religious land-use laws but also assaults both the First Amendment’s freedom of assembly and freedom of religion.

“The First Amendment, in part, reads, ‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’” Broyles said. “And that’s the key part: ‘prohibiting the free exercise.’ We believe this is a substantial government burden on the free exercise of religion.”

He continued, “If one’s home is one’s castle, certainly you would the think the free exercise of religion, of all places, could occur in the home.”

Broyles confirmed the county official followed through on his threat. The pastor and his wife received a written warning ordering the couple to “cease/stop religious assembly on parcel or obtain a major use permit.”

“The Western Center for Law and Policy is troubled by this draconian move to suppress home Bible studies,” said the law center in a statement. “If the current trends in our nation continue, churches may be forced underground. If that happens, believers will once again be forced to meet in homes. If homes are already closed by the government to assembly and worship, where then will Christians meet?”

On a personal note, Broyles added, “I’ve been leading Bible studies in my home for 13 years in San Diego County, and I personally believe that home fellowship Bible studies are the past and future of the church. … If you look at China, the church grew from home Bible studies. I’m deeply concerned that if in the U.S. we are not able to meet in our homes and freely practice our religion, then we may be worse off than China.”

Broyles also explained to WND that oppressive governments, such as communist China or Nazi Germany, worked to repress home fellowships, labeling them the “underground church” or “subversive groups,” legally compelling Christians to meet only in sanctioned, government-controlled “official” churches.

“Therein lies my concern,” Broyles said. “If people can’t practice their religious beliefs in the privacy of their own homes with a few of their friends, that’s an egregious First Amendment violation.”

WND contacted a spokeswoman for San Diego County, who acknowledged the description of the incident seemed “bizarre,” but who was unable to locate the details of the account. She simply could not provide comment yet, she said, until she could become familiar with the case.

Broyles said the WCLP is nearly ready to file a demand letter with the county to release the pastor and his wife from the requirement to obtain the expensive permit. If the county refuses, Broyles said, the WCLP will consider a lawsuit in federal court.

Broyles also told WND the pastor and his wife are continuing to hold the Bible study in their home.


  • http://www.operatorchan.org Hughes_dePayens

    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
    This better be fake, or i’m going to be pissed.

  • Sgsaur

    It’s not fake. People, it’s time we take this country back.

    Oh, and since the Pastor and his wife are not the type to say this, I’ll say it for them – Hey you MFCS Communist Bastards in the San Diego County Government, GO STRAIGHT TO HELL.

  • Mike Mose

    America was born for religion and economic freedom.

    Obama and the Democrats have to kill Jesus again. Will GOD stand for this pure Marxist communist crap the democrats have supported and championed.

    May Obama, Reid and Pelosi reap their rewards for enslaving the entire world. May the democrat cities reap the rewards of the true perversion that Obama has unleashed.

  • GRIZZ

    Here it comes.I hope all my Christian brothers and sisters are ready.This hate will know no bounds. :gun:

    • Ernest T. Bass

      …my .50 knows no bounds…bring on the hate-mongers.

    • aboutTObegin

      hahahaha…

      :shock:

  • Badger

    LMAO……

    I think San Diego collectively is a little more intelligent than this. If not and this was a bona fide performance by the City or City employee? The county official who reportedly warned this couple that fines will begin at $100, then $200, $500, $1000, “and then it will get ugly.” Has no clue what ugly can be.

    Once this complaint is filed, I want to see names, what department they’re from and the political disposition of the alleged department. If this is bona fide as written? We’ll get the addresses as well. This is somewhat akin to the Liberal’s dropping a dime on the AIG employee’s addresses and threatening these folks and thier children into submission. I can’t imagine what a child in this atmosphere must have thought and how that child will react as they get older. This goes for the posting of personal addresses of individuals and businesses that supported Prop 8. We had no idea the ugly lengths these folks would go to and I can tell you most of us were in sociological shock that these actions were actually initiated. Now we do. And we intend on making the previous efforts look like a pre school tea party lawfully of course. No? Try us libs, one time, just one more time….

    The ways and days of liberal political intimidation are over.

    Very truly yours,

    Your next door neighbor, your children’s teacher, your mailman, your employer, your car mechanic, your spouse, your Doctor or me, Badger, one of many 4 star Chef’s in San Francisco……oops, that filet slipped right out of my hand. LMAO…figure this one out libbers.

  • mshatto

    I really don’t think our elected officials here in SD County are part of this just some low level dolt. This doesn’t sound like something Diane Jacobs, Ron Roberts, or Bill Horn would put up with. Hopefully.

  • mshatto

    This could be something that ACTIVE should be part of…..

    • politicalfish

      :arrow: I agree lets keep track…

  • Armando Garcia

    Hell no not in my country, well hold our dam bible study’s any were any time we want. AMEN DAM IT

  • http://ip727.wordpress.com/ IP727

    A BUREAUKRAT FROM SAN DIEGO SO INEPT,
    UPON HIS PUNY DONG HE DID STEP,
    UPON THE ANVIL OF JUSTICE HIS BALLS WE WILL SMASH,
    HIS HOUSE OF CARDS WILL AROUND HIM CRASH,
    THIS CLUSTER FOXTROT WE’LL NOT ACCEPT.

  • Gaige Mosher

    This sounds like mid-level unelected bureaucrat BS. Heads will roll for it. It’s not the beginning of the Tribulation, people.

  • mindy abraham

    since when do you need a permit to hold bible meetings? :mad:

  • Elvistheslug

    I’ve seen this shit before I deal with it everyday. What you have here is a neighbor who has some connection with a city council or commission member and either hates Christians or any religion or just plain hates the people parking on the street when they attend. They’re trying to use the zoning code to claim this gathering constitutes a church which is a violation of the zoning code for residential districts.

    It will be fun to watch this play out as there is a definition of what constitutes a church in their zoning code and they’ll hang their hat on it. If this was me first figure out the definition of what constitutes and church and make sure they stay below it. Second thing I would do is find out who complained to the city and beat the crap out of the MF’er or if you’re nice try to talk some sense into the idiot.

    • Hawkerdriver (Pisson the Koran

      If there was a “koran discussion group” in the same “zone” I doubt if any county officials would have responded.

  • JCD

    When you have 10,000 regulations you destroy all respect for the law.

  • unkagle

    My permit is the Constitution of the United States and my Colt M1911. Come on in and I will show you both,with the business end of the Colt being placed squarely between your eyes.
    I’m sure the little “sheetheads” are allowed to do anything they like in the name of tolerance.
    These pricks keep fuckn’ with the bull and they will get the HORN…………. :gun: :gun: :mad:

  • Biz

    Since the Marxist-Socialist Dems misled the people with labels like “Progressive,” “Hope,” and “Change” and got O elected, we see more snivelling zanies from the fascist left acting out as if they grew a pair and have decided they can act like Brown Shirts in their attempts to destroy Christianity and a whole lot more. Make one of these people a bureacrat, and you have the worst combination in the world. But, staying focused on individual incidents like this keeps us from looking at the whole picture.

    A friendly reminder in case you did not get a chance to brush up on world history – There have been many Marxist/ Socialist groups that started out in similar fashion, doing many of the same things we see across the land, today.
    First
    These groups’ Marxist approach and work towards dictatorship were advocated by academics, artists, and unionists along with their combined wealthy patrons, an effective way for the common man to say “Hey these people are not stupid. I will support them.”
    Second
    The largest recruiting ground was in the schools – from elementary school on up. They had at least one if not two generations to destroy critical thinking and create an obssessive perspective they misleadingly called critical thinking.
    Third
    The second largest recruiting ground was within labor in two countries, and farmers in another country. The appeal was (I’m paraphrasing to keep it simple) “Why should people with brains or guts be so much better off than you?”
    Fourth
    Early in their collective marches toward the destruction of freedom, liberty, and individual rights,came the denouncement of Christianity along with attacks on the nuclear and extended family, their significance as a source of values and principles that did not support the party lines.
    This was evidenced by local politicians, professors, lawyers, and movie stars’ statements viewing Christianity as a roadblock to some future Brave New World that the leadership had created as a vision in the minds of their supporters and folllowers. It was well before WWII that we see evidence of exclusion, imprisonment, and murder of Protestants and Catholics.
    Fifth
    They had the media in their pocket. There is little record of public opposition to those regimes. By the time power had been seized, most opposition was being either killed or had to go into exile.
    Sixth
    There was a profound desire for a national civilian army/police force with powers inside their respective countries equal to the army (See Obama’s civilian security speech). Ultimately, they established a secret police with bribed and balckmailed informants who would testify to anything against a confirmed critic of the state, a neighbor they did not like, the father or husband of a woman they desired, a family whose home was nicer than theirs, etc.
    Seventh
    They ignore a lot of human nature but have a knack for utilising the worst aspects of human nature – envy, greed, hopelessness, making people think they are victims in order divide the populace, etc.
    Eighth
    The laws and constitutions of the countries of origin have been abused on all sides by the courts and the legal apparatuses for some time, mostly for personal gain, but frequently for what feels right to the governing body at the time. As the foundation of law is ignored, law become unrooted, whimsical, and meaningless.
    Ninth
    There was a lot of handwringing and whining about what the groups were doing at the time, but there was no serious, organized opposition, until it was too late.

    The Groups
    Russia – Bloshevik Leninists – strove for world wide communist dictatorship based on democratic,communist values, replaced by….(death toll- 3 million)

    Russia – Stalinist – focused internally and on adjacent countries…..(death toll – 30 – 40 million starved to support policy, an additonal 30 million worked to death or murdered for opposition or being in the wrong place at the wrong time)

    People’s Republic of China (Communist China)- Communist Party of China (CPC, death toll of opposition, 1949-1975 40 Million.

    Germany – National Socialist German Worker’s Party – NAZI’s – beyond the dead from fighting WWII, most Protestant and Catholic Christians that opposed the occult and pagan mish mash of beliefs that the NAZIs were forcing down their children’s throats and their designs on goverance went to concentration camps or were killed by party thugs before and during the war. Then there is that small problem of murdering 6 million Jews. It is estimated that 13 million Germans were killed for opposing the NAZI’s.

    There are smaller and more recent groups in history whose records are just as odious from the following countries – Viet Nam (vietnamese communist party), Cambodia (Kmer Rouge), Romania, Poland, Chekoslovakia, Laos, Iran, Egypt (Islamic Brotherhood), etc… but I really am trying to avoid a book here.

    The only real way to change what is going on is to organize as the opposition has, using economic boycotts of companies that support this march toward socialism, recruiting voters, opening eyes, spreading the truth in the face of their lies, paying for media time, etc.

    It takes organization, money, a vision, a supporting plan, and millions of volunteers and supporters.

    • Hawkerdriver (Pisson the Koran

      I have seen a couple of brief stories on concentrsation camps being developed right under our noses. Do you have any intell on this?

    • Biz

      I am unaware of any concentration camps, but have confirmed that more than 20k soldiers were being trained and standing by in Georgia to suppress civilian unrest right after the economy tanked. That was started under Bush. I have heard but not confirmed that Obama increased that number to 80k.

  • http://www.newsandprayer.com Wanda Fay

    I will be calling some people on Tuesday and this week and raising hell about this! This is NOT IN MY TOWN time!

  • falconfixer

    Silencing through regulation. A blatant violation of the first amendment. Where is the A.C.L.U. on this one? Oh yeah, these are Christians being silenced, so the Anti Christian Litigation Unit (A.C.L.U.) DOES NOT CARE.

  • Saxon

    How that family Pastor or not tell them to “FUCK OFF”, I`ll never know that sort of patience and reserve. The balls on these Commies!!!

  • Hawkerdriver (Pisson the Koran

    Why that woman stood there and even answered those idiotic questions is beyond me. Brownshirts show up on my doorstep and they get to see wrong end of 18inch Mosberg. :wink: