F-35s FOUR YEARS Behind Schedule, No One Told Until After Vote On F-22 Budget
An internal Pentagon oversight board has found that the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program is two years behind the publicly announced schedule, say multiple congressional aides familiar with the findings, sparking a sharp response from those invested in the debate over the F-22.
As Congress has debated the future of the F-22 fighter program, lawmakers have used the promise of the F-35 plane’s completion as a key plank in their argument that the F-22 line could be ended without a significant risk to national security.
Now, senators and aides are lamenting that the Pentagon oversight panel’s more pessimistic view on the F-35 program was not publicly released during the F-22 debate and are calling for more open disclosure of the problems with the development of the F-35.
The Pentagon’s Joint Estimate Team (JET), which was established to independently oversee the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program, is at odds with the fighter’s Joint Program Office, the aides said. The oversight panel’s calculations determined that the fighter won’t be able to move out of the development phase and into full production mode until 2016, rather than 2014 as the program office has said. That’s assuming there are no further problems with the program, which has already faced cost overruns and schedule delays. The Government Accountability Office said the delay could cost as much as $7.4 billion.
“In every parameter and in every respect, the Joint Program Office’s projections were always a hell of a lot rosier than what the Joint Estimate Team found,” said one Senate aide who was briefed on the findings.
Sen. Christopher S. Bond , R-Mo., who has often criticized the program, calling it the “Joint Strike Failure,” said his attempts to get internal Pentagon data on the program have often been rebuffed.
“They are wrapped so tight on that F-35,” said Bond, who added the Pentagon is so invested in the program they are loathe to release negative information, especially during a debate over Air Force funding.
“They bet too much on the F-35. It’s too big to fail,” said Bond. “It’s like Citigroup.”
Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said there is no delay in the completion of the first production aircraft, which is due next year, but said more testing was needed to determine whether full production would be able to begin on schedule.
“We just don’t have enough data yet to know whether the JET estimate or the program office’s estimate is correct,” he said, adding, “This is part of the natural tension between the testing community and the program community inside the department.”
The administration has requested billions of dollars more than last year for F-35 test aircraft, Morrell noted, saying that the program’s success depends on the funding and then the execution of that request.
John R. Kent, a spokesman for the F-35’s main contractor Lockheed Martin, said that despite the Joint Estimate Team’s findings, there has been no change made to the F-35 official production schedule.
Cheryl Limrick, spokesperson for the F-35 program office, said that the “JET analysis is grounded in past performance of other legacy fighter programs and does not fully acknowledge proactive F-35 management steps.”
AIR SUPERIORITY
Moreover, the Pentagon has the ability to fund increased testing to make up for any potential delays, he said.
The administration has requested billions of dollars more than last year to hasten the production of F-35 test aircraft, Morrell noted, saying that the program’s success depends on the funding.
John R. Kent, a spokesman for the F-35’s main contractor, Lockheed Martin Corp., said that despite the Joint Estimate Team’s findings, there has been no change made to the official F-35 production schedule.
Cheryl Limrick, spokeswoman for the F‑35 program office, said the “JET analysis is grounded in past performance of other legacy fighter programs and does not fully acknowledge proactive F-35 management steps.”
Air Superiority
Administration officials and senators repeatedly touted the F-35 program as the best bet to preserve U.S. air power superiority and as a primary reason to cap the F‑22 program at 187 planes. The Senate voted for the cap, 58-40, on July 21.
“If properly supported, the F-35 will be the backbone of America’s tactical aviation fleet for decades to come,” said Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in a July 16 speech at the Economic Club of Chicago, “if — and it’s a big if — money is not drained away to spend on other aircraft.”
Experts said Gates’ efforts to pressure senators to end F-22 production would have been hurt had the Joint Estimate Team’s findings been widely known.
“If this information had been part of the debate over the last couple of months, several Democrats, many of whom switched their votes at the last minute, would have been much harder to persuade,” said Tom Donnelly, director of defense studies at the conservative American Enterprise Institute.
Any delay in full production of the F‑35 would affect the entire fighter fleet, Donnelly said, because the F-35 is meant to take the place of so many planes, including the F-15, F-16 and F-18.
Although the Senate voted to strip the defense authorization bill (S 1390) of funding to procure F-22s beyond 187 planes, the debate over the plane is sure to resurface when the House and Senate move their fiscal 2010 draft Defense appropriations bills. “The F‑22 debate is not over, so the administration’s credibility on the F-35 could really be hurt by this information,” Donnelly said.
Even senators who were fighting to save the F-22 referred to 2014 as the Pentagon’s official estimate for commencing full production, although there were hints that it might change.
“The F-35 was scheduled to begin construction in 2010. Since then, of course, it has been pushed back four years to 2014,” Sen. Christopher J. Dodd , D-Conn., said during floor debate. Dodd, an F‑22 supporter, added, “There are some rumors that this date may be pushed back even further.”
F-35 Falls Behind Two More Years, Report Says
A delay in F-35 production could have international implications as well, because several allied countries are tied into the F‑35 program and are depending on that plane to contribute to their defense structures.
“Customers such as the United Kingdom, the Air National Guard, the Marine Corps, and others are on very tight schedules because their current equipment is rapidly aging out,” said Douglas Birkey, director of government relations for the Air Force Association. “They need the F-35 as a backfill.”
Delays Attributed to Design Changes
The Joint Estimate Team reports internally to the Pentagon and includes representatives from each of the military services.
After extensive evaluations that included site visits and meetings with the program’s contractors, the team determined that added delays were caused by ongoing complications with the engineering and design changes to the plane, as well as software problems, Senate aides said.
The team’s findings were based on data from September 2008, and the next report won’t be available until at least October, likely well past consideration of the fiscal 2010 defense appropriations and authorization bills, the aide said.
The discrepancy between the Joint Estimate Team and the F-35 Joint Program Office was noted in a March report by the GAO, but it received little attention at the time.
Delays to the F-35 program schedule, as noted by the Joint Estimate Team, could add as much as $7.4 billion to the cost of the program, and the Defense Department’s desire to accelerate production could cost an additional $33.4 billion, the GAO found.
F-35 “development will cost more and take longer than reported to the Congress last year,” the GAO report stated, adding that the Pentagon wants to accelerate procurement “despite cost and schedule troubles.”
Appropriators are dubious about speeding up F-35 production and have already reduced the president’s request for F‑35 procurement by $530 million in the House Defense appropriations bill, shifting much of that money toward research.
“This is a cut because we think they just can’t spend the money [that they requested],” said Rep. John P. Murtha , D-Pa., chairman of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee. “They’ve got to do a better job of oversight.”
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Moron Jimmeh Carter cancelled the B-1, but it flies missions all the time now. Because it was brought back. The F-35 will like no other fighter, and it will be worth it.
Come on, folks … we’re not going to win anything for America, we’re not going to win efforts in congress, and OBozo will do everything he can to defeat and destroy our great nation.
QUIT BEING SO SURPRISED that it’s all bad news. It is why ACTIVE needs to win, America needs to win, this fight. Stop yer whining, trust in the good faith of true Americans (like Lockheed Martin) and get back to work. Sheesh.
True. As it is we would have as hard time knocking out any airforce in the world with what we have now as hitting the side of a barn 5ft away. The JSF is huge. 4 years for a fighter that will replace three fighters? Talk about multirole.
My cousin works for Lockheed Martin and assures me the F-35 will be able to get the job done.It will be the most advanced fighter/attack aircraft in the world.
Advanced aircraft are always over budget and late to production. Four years is pretty bad, though, but not all that surprising.
Do you know what the oficial opinion of America’s military is IN CHINA? From the Strategy Page/Mil News … China’s opinion of any nation trying to fight the U.S. Military:
“It’s like throwing an egg against a rock.”
We are BAD, capable, Mobile, Agile and Hostile. Iraq’s air defense was the fourth most capable in the world. And we blew it away. We helped the Israeli’s (flying U.S. made jets) fly over Syria, bomb the shit out of that nuke site, and then fly back over Syria.
And Syria NEVER SAW ANYTHING of those old conventional airplanes like F-16 and F-15.
They’ll fight prelim holding actions and defeat us in our own congress, and THEY KNOW THAT IS THE ONLY WAY.
ACTIVE must help reclaim America.
ob needs to cancel it to fund his health care.
His health care plan will be more expensive than these fighters.
and yet, another striking blow to America and its power…the usurper is getting what he wants when he wants it and as you can see with the health care socialism bill, he throws a tantrum when it does not go his way.
-aTb
STILLLLLL waiting on a Birth Certificate!
Guys, the problem is that we have an aging inventory of Air Force aircraft now. The F35 may be a swell plane sometime in the future, but we have a spectacular plance now in the F22. A big factor in the F22 shutdown decision was the F35, but it’s not ready.
The F22s are suppose to replace aging fighters. This aircraft is a true Air Superiority weapon, being that this aircraft is unmatched in the world today. President Obama’s fiscal year 2010 defense budget only exacerbates the fighter strain, along with damage to the highly-skilled engineers and designers who build these world-class aircraft around the country. Indeed, before the budget is even approved by Congress, production work for third- and fourth-tier F-22 suppliers is already drying up. This affects America’s small businesses first.
The Air Force originally planned to purchase 700 F-22As to replace the fleet of 800 F-15A-Ds and the retired F-117 Nighthawk bomber, but the required number of F-22s was reduced over the past two decades due to budget constraints. More than 30 air campaign studies over the past 15 years have confirmed a minimum requirement for 260 F-22s. Air Force Chief of Staff General Norton Schwartz recently acknowledged the Air Force warfighting requirement is for 243 F-22s, but the service can only afford 187 because of a lack of funds.
With only 187 F-22s, the number of actual combat-coded fighters available at any given time is roughly 125, with the remaining fighters used for training, testing, backup, and reserve missions.
Although the F-22A is the world’s sole fifth-generation fighter, numerous studies have concluded that the quality of the platform can be stretched only so far in making up for a lack of quantity. A shortfall of aircraft would also prevent the Air Force from filling out the service’s ten Air Expeditionary Forces, undermining their stability by ensuring the need to rotate F-22s on an as-needed basis.
Guys, Like 5 F-22’s could destroy anyone’s airforce right now!!!
We are sooooooooooooooo getting set up for a nasty freaking attack it’s not funny. Our government is setting us up to die.
Oversight my ass, they’ve been planning this so we will be vulnerable to either our own government or some country that hates us.
I have been arguing in recent days that the F35 was next on the chopping block.
Personally, I am in favor of proceeding on the F22 and the F35. But what we will find is that the F35 cannot serve well in the role for which the F22 is designed and that the different versions of the F35 for the Marines, Navy and Air Force will need to be more different and more costly than now projected.
I am also in favor of a larger Army and Marine Corps, more Navy ships and a missle defense that will be needed to save us from disaster.
To pay for the F22, the F35, a larger Army and Marine Corps, more Navy ships and a missile defense, we need to cut drastically the wasteful domestic spending. We cannot afford socialism.
We cannot afford not to be the LONE Force for Freedom in the World. If the Marxist President has his way we will be one of the many voices for dictatorships and despots
……….. 
Wow. This rather important fact was missing from the Barry propaganda apparatus.
Go figure.
Def. Sec. Gates played Obama & the Dems in Congress & now he’ll eventually get the #’s of 22’s & 35’s that the Generals want.
Well Done.
Agreed Mike…Gates just wanted to look like he was in Favor of the cuts on F22, he let them pass it and then “someone” leaked that the Lightning was 4 yrs behind schedule. Watch them re-think their cuts now of the F22, pisses me off also that they think only one Engine manufacturing source is needed. GE should get the second source engine work as they have been trying to do, but get shit on every time. Without an engine that plane sits on a production line instead of greasing Muslim Piggiy ass!
A ONE year delay in appropriations money causes a THREE YEAR DELAY in delivery of an Air Force weapons system. During 2007 Bush pushed F-35 funding for deployment back by one year in order to use the money for Iraq and Afghanistan. THAT is why the F-35 is “4 years” behind schedule, NOT because of any lack of testing. As with ANY new technology, there will be problems, remember when the F-16 was fielded? (the first “fly by wire” airplane) The Air Force was crashing one F-16 a WEEK for the first couple of YEARS after deployment to front line units, I know, I was there. They called them “Lawn Darts” for a reason! All of this is liberal B.S. in order to justify canceling ANOTHER weapons system that the U.S. needs for our security.
The F-35 is not only NOT in the same ballpark as the F-22, but it is not even in the same game! I worked with both aircraft. If people knew the true capabilities of the F-22 they would shit themselves. So all of you who say the F-35 is “big” have no idea. I will not (and cannot) get into it here but the F-22 is vital to strategic national defense as well as theater defense. The RCS of the F-22 is an order of magnitude smaller than the F-22, the 22 is a lot more agile than the 35 and it can operate at higher altitudes as well as speeds. It is more survivable and can perform a multitude of missions the 35 couldn’t even dream of (like battle-space surveillance for instance). I better stop right there
I am not saying the 35 is not a good aircraft, I am simply saying that trying to compare the two is just plain ignorant.
As for the delay in production, hell, we all know that for a long time now. Not sure what the big secret was. Guess it just shows how out of touch those idiots in DC are!! As a matter of fact, I believe I saw a news report about a year ago that made reference to the delay because of design changes…………..which I know absolutely NOTHING about!
I know an enginner who worked on the F22 program and who gave me an F22 t-shirt. He could not talk specifics, but made it clear that the F22 was just mind boggling awesome in its capabilities.
I have no doubt that 750 was the better number of F22s to build.
Part of the testing is they pit the F22 against 6 F16s and the Raptor wins. The F22 is the top aircraft in the world in my opinion…………….stupid asses they risk 56 years of American air superiority by cancelling this aircraft
@sassysuz
Actually, it was more like 9 F-15’s vs 1 Raptor. The Raptor only carries 4 AIM 120C’s and 2 AIM 9X’s (6 missles) and 487 Rounds of 20mm (about a 4 second burst) ammo. Not only did the Raptor shoot them all down, but the Eagle drivers said they never saw him or detected him until after they were “dead”.
Hey Madd from another F22/F35 worker. We know that alot of the Superiority comes from the EW Suite on the Aircraft. “We protect those who protect us”
MadRad is totally correct, of course. There are aspects of the F-22 that will remain very secret for years, decades. It is great as a Forward Controller AWACS-like platform, and can do so many other things because it’s a sort of very high altitude “ghost.” The F-35 is for ground attack. Both are needed to complement the B-2 Spirit, and possibly upcoming tailless/flying-wing/stealthy combat transport cargo aircraft.
When they put the lone Raptor pilot up against 6 or 8 F-15’s, the F-15’s are also BEING FLOWN BY RAPTOR PILOTS. That’s how they train. Every F-15 is a Raptor pilot, he knows what the Raptor can do, he is an expert at what F-15 can do, he has several other Eagles to cooperate with … and they still lose.
I’m gratified that there are so many knowledgeable people posting here in favor of the F-22 Raptor AND the F-35 Lightning. WE NEED BOTH.
What everyone forgets is the F-22 is designed for air dominance! Not just air supremacy. The liberals always cut defense spending to pay for the socialist domestic programs. As many informed ACTIVE members have stated the numbers show us that our aging aircraft need to be replaced. Our F-16′ & F-15″s are aging rapidly with all the sorties they have flow since 1991. The progressive liberals will put their collective heads in the sand, and when the shit hits the fan, they’ll blame the armed forces of America for not being prepared!!!
[...] clipped from patdollard.com [...]
Ok, its pretty obvious the dems in general, and especially the top 3 fucksticks are setting up the country to fail on purpose. I get that. My question is why? Why hang the country out to dry? It doesnt take a genius to say “hey, im running this place into the ground…on purpose, but wait, I live here too. If this place comes a-crumblin down, its gonna crumble right on top of me.” I just cant understand where this feeling of invincibility comes from. Besides, if it gets as bad as it could here, theres 300 mil pissed americans with one thing on their minds. Im sure they heard of the french revolution. I know they’re only out for themselves so why would they be acting against their own self interest so explicitly. I just dont get it. any ideas?
It is better to rule in hell than serve in Heaven. If your a Godless Marxist,that would seem logical. They do not want to be the Worlds Leading Super Power for Freedom. If BHO stance with Honduras hasn’t shown the World where we now stand, than our stance with Israel makes it much clearer. This is no longer the America we all have know and Love.
This has all happened before. Does anyone remeber the F-111 ? That was supposed to be “the fighter for all services” and even though it served the USAF very well for many years the program was a failure in the bigger picture of things. It never became a fighter and only ended up with teh Air Force. When you try to make a plane that can do everything you get something that can do a lot but is not outstanding at anything. History has proven this time and time again and the F-35 will be no different.
As advanced and fantastic as the F22 is, it is economically inefficient, and requires 30 hours of ground service for every hour in the air.
regardless, we all know the primary motivation behind scrapping the F22: this anti-military administration’s desires to weaken our military strength and begin re-allocating the funds and budgets to “social” issues
OK. I’ve read a lot of chest-beating here. I’m about as gung-ho as any … and I’ve got my retirement and medals to prove it.
But the uncomfortable question is this: are tactical aircraft based on an outdated Cold War planning model? Are UCAVs REALLY what is needed? (especially to more adequately protect the ’sensitivities’ and asses of our future warriors?)
Let me slip into silly-mode for just a sec.: remember the Terminator movie series? Well, ultimately, robots (’battle-bots’) are where we’re going. I think remote sensors and vehicles are the next wave … and not just for economics, either: but high-ground and upper-hand.
So, I’ll stick my neck out and say manned aircraft are playing a rapidly diminishing role in future combat.
What say-eth thee?
According to the best chest-thumpers… er, minds at places like MIT, not anytime particularly soon.
Two to four generations away IF nothing impedes the advancement of technology like only government can.