The Silent Muslim Siege: Will Europe Put It’s Foot Down?

December 9th, 2009 (110) Posted By Erik Wong.

FRANCE BURQA

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“Either Islam will be Europeanized, or Europe will be Islamized.” In recent years this prediction has been made by many major experts, among them the American Bernard Lewis, the Syrian-born German Bassam Tibi, and the French Gilles Kepel. This is, without question, an uncomfortable and sensitive topic, but it’s one that is very pertinent now that the Swiss have put their foot down and said that they will not accept another minaret within their borders.

In recent decades, Islam has exploded in Europe. You can see the changes with your own eyes from year to year – whether it’s the increasing presence of hijabs on the street in a city like Oslo, or the bearded men with ankle-high baggy pants, or the new and resplendent mosques that are under construction. For my part, I’ve noticed an increasing insecurity and unease among “ordinary” people who feel like aliens in their own country. People ask: what is the purpose of this project? Don’t we, as a nation, have a right to pass our own cultural legacy, our traditions and values, on to our children and grandchildren? Should we, in the name of tolerance, give in to the demands made by “others” whose influence is growing, and whose voices are becoming louder, as their numbers increase? Or as a Norwegian Labor Party politician said to me in a private conversation: “On the day that most of the members of the city council are Muslims, what do you think will happen to the right of Oslo bars to serve alcohol?” Another leading Laborite with over a couple of decades’ experience in politics put it more bluntly when I asked him “What you think about immigration from the Muslim world?” The answer was so crisp, merciless, and genuinely felt that I gasped: “What have they contributed?” Period.

Let it be said that of course there are many Muslims in Europe who are getting along just fine and who get the same chills down their spines that other European citizens do when they think of Sharia and the lack of freedom that accompanies classical Islam. But as a rule those aren’t the Muslims who are the most prominent members of their faith among us; they aren’t the ones who enjoy power in the Muslim community, and they aren’t the ones who are best organized and who have developed exceptionally strong connections to our public officials.

No, it’s not the secularized Muslims who are leading the way – far from it. Ayaan Hirsi Ali made this clear when I and a colleague of mine from Human Rights Service in Oslo met her at the Dutch Parliament in The Hague in 2005. As she put it, there most certainly are Muslims in Europe who want a Europeanized Islam – that is to say, a private, personal Islam without political and judicial influence. But these aren’t the Muslims who are powerfully positioned in Europe’s community organizations, Europe’s corridors of power, and Europe’s universities.

Here is an interesting point: immigrants from Iran tend to be secular, well-integrated, and – very often – well-educated. Here in Norway, Iranians have generally integrated themselves into our culture, accepting Norwegian values even as they’ve maintained Iranian traditions that don’t conflict with human rights, such as celebrating Iranian New Year. But Iranians are not the leaders of Europe’s Muslim communities. Nor can I think of a single mosque in Norway, or anywhere in Europe for that matter, that has been founded by Iranians.

If Iranians, generally speaking, have been an immigration success story, enriching Europe and becoming fully participating members of European society, this isn’t true of the members of many other major immigrant groups, whose origins are in traditional villages in other Muslim countries. It’s precisely these people’s unwillingness (or inability?) to assimilate to European society – indeed, to appreciate such typically European values as freedom, equality, social participation, and personal responsibility – that may be a major reason why Switzerland said no to more minarets. At some point, Europe must put its foot down if it truly wishes to continue to be the Europe we know today. There is a limit as to how many minarets a society can live with, how many hijabs and baggy pants the streets of Europe can tolerate, before the public space becomes as ideologically charged and as palpably unfree as the streets of, say, Pakistan. We need to stand up and preserve our culture – a successful culture that is itself the only reason why immigrants are streaming from the Muslim world to our continent rather than in the other direction.

Here’s a specific example of how misguided our politicians have been in their handling of the challenge of Islam – an example that I think provides a very clear picture of grotesque weakness. In 1974, Muslim immigrants from Pakistan established the first mosque in Norway, the Islamic Cultural Centre (ICC). The name has a comforting, harmless sound: a “cultural center” sounds like something very different from a mosque. In reality, however, the ICC is a direct subsidiary of an extreme religio-political movement and political party in Pakistan, Jamaat-i-Islami (JI), which was established by one of the leading Islamist ideologues of the last century, Abu Ala Maududi (1903 – 1979). When Pakistan’s worst despot ever, General and President Zia ul-Haq (1977 – 1988), Islamized that country from top to bottom, his main inspiration was Maududi. Today Qazi Hussain Ahmad, who has been a top JI leader for several years and has been banned for security reasons from entering about 25 European countries, as well as Egypt. He has been under house arrest in Pakistan several times for having instigated violent riots that took human lives. Unsurprisingly, he’s also a fan of Bin Laden. Yet he’s not prohibited from entering Norway, and when he landed at Oslo Airport in August 2004, the arrivals hall was packed with Norwegian-Pakistani men and boys who openly cheered him as a prophet.

The ICC, then, which has a grandiose new mosque with minarets in downtown Oslo, follows an ideology that is a carbon copy of Maududi’s terrifying, violent creed. It doesn’t just belong to a philosophically dangerous movement; it belongs to a movement which preaches that Muslims should not become fully integrated members of Norwegian society. This is exactly the same attitude that is preached at every mosque in Europe that has “respect” for itself. And yet the ICC, like many other mosques that share its theology, was allowed to establish itself in Norway, and in Europe generally, without protest from anybody. And that’s not all: today it’s one of the largest and most influential so-called faith communities among Norwegian Muslims and has, over the years, received tens of millions of kroner in government support because it is regarded – absurdly – as a purely religious body.

But Europe’s cultural elite is blind to this ugly reality. On the contrary, that elite, which lives largely off of the dialogue industry – exchanging endless amiable platitudes with Muslim leaders – is all bent out of shape over Switzerland: it views the ban on minarets as an assault on free speech and on freedom of religion; the ban, according to the elite, is an offense against cultural diversity, an expression of intolerance, prejudice, and extremism that will lead to a clash of civilizations. Not to mention that the ban violates international conventions.

Yet this same elite never gets worked up when Christians are murdered in Pakistan or when their churches and homes are burned down. Or when women and men are stoned to death in Somalia, or when burka-clad women in Afghanistan are crammed together with goats in the backs of trucks. Nor do they pay the slightest heed to a woman walking through the streets of Oslo in a burka – a garment that must be described as the clearest possible manifestation of antipathy to Western culture, a powerful statement of complete rejection of the society in which the woman lives.

It is not too much to say, then, that the elite is completely off-balance. And it’s this lack of balance, this lack of sensible attitudes in the salons of the privileged, this lack of respect for their own culture and for the values on which that culture is founded, that the grass roots are reacting to. Simply put, ordinary people are sick of being told by their “betters” what to do and think: they want with all their hearts to defend themselves and their own. Their message is: By all means, come to Europe and become one of us. But don’t come here to turn our culture and our values upside down. The people have, in short, begun to wake up and to say no to the utopian multicultural dream. For they realize that Norway will no longer be Norway, and the West will no longer be the West, if the country’s essential culture is not preserved; and Christianity is an indissoluble part of that culture. Whether one is personally religious or not, that’s simply a fact. If Islam is going to place itself at the heart of our culture, most Norwegians understand that what we now consider Norwegian will be dead and buried. The only alternative would be a miracle: a revolution within Islam that would place all of Muhammed’s inhumane actions on the ash heap of history and reduce all of his “sacred” legal and political pronouncements to the status of fairy tales like A Thousand and One Nights. Of course, such a revolution would also require an end to all of the violence and hatred preached in the Koran.

For about a millennium, Islam has failed spectacularly to pull off such a revolutionary project. It’s precisely for this reason that people are pouring out of these failed states (yes, they’re also failed on account of other kinds of ideological despotism, including socialist projects, which when combined with authoritarian, oppressive religion produce something like gunpowder). The big question, however, is this: why should we expect a form of Islam to develop in Europe that is entirely antithetical to the form of Islam found in the Muslim world?

Of course Norway, and Europe as a whole, should not embrace any and every kind of culture or religion that finds its way here. But where to draw the line? There is no one answer to this question. The answer will vary according to the nature of the culture or religion and the strength of the challenge that it represents. But if we sell out our mainstream culture, and relativize it, accept a watering down of our rights, we may end up with a set of supposedly democratic but in fact empty and meaningless ideals that fail to provide us citizens with a values-related map or compass. And what can happen in critical situations if the people don’t share a sense of community? How can we ensure a sense of belonging if, for example, freedom of speech faces a major threat or if we suffer a terrorist attack? Can we risk having civil war-like conditions, as we is already the case in Europe’s no-go zones? Democratic order is, above all, a technical and practical matter, and it can thus never replace people’s need for a community, their need to be part of a common culture.

People must, then, have feelings – positive ones – about one another. Last winter I had a thought-provoking experience on the east side of Oslo on my way home after work. A thin layer of snow covered the icy streets. A Somali women dressed in a tent slipped on the ice as I passed her. Instinctively, I grabbed her and thus managed to prevent what could have been a bad fall, and helped her back to her feet. I asked if she was okay, but she just hurried on with a completely expressionless look on her face. Not a single sign of human connection, not a single glance at me. I stood there feeling empty and alienated.

Awareness of a society’s and a culture’s need for a sense of community seems especially absent from the EU system. The kind of communal feeling I am talking about contrasts sharply with the multicultural mentality of the pro-EU and antinational forces. They refuse to understand that a nation’s culture – its folk songs, traditions, holy days, flags, and national anthems – is different from a broad-based constitution based on ideals of equality. A text, simply put, cannot replace a feeling of community. A national community with strong survival instincts is founded not on a text but on matters that are close to the heart, on traditions, on things that are palpable, on things as obvious as a common language and a sense of belonging to a fatherland. And yes, this sense of community also has something to do with the churches and church spires, as well as the church’s rituals and traditions. The principles that tie people together cannot be legislated by politicians; such bonds call for something more – trust between citizens, national loyalty, a high degree of agreement as to what freedom is and is not, and a broad sense of support for the obligations that a real community demands of its members.

The minarets, then, don’t symbolize community in the European sense – they symbolize the umma, the Muslim community. They don’t represent loyalty to Norway or Switzerland or any other European country – they represent loyalty to Mecca and to the umma. They don’t signify freedom, but illiberalism (women’s oppression, the punishment of apostasy with death). The minarets, in short, embody the antithesis of the Declaration of Human Rights (as is clear to anyone who has read the 1990 Cairo Declaration about so-called “human rights in Islam,” which was formulated by the Organization of the Islamic Conference). Nor are they, one might add, a part of our architectural tradition or any other Western tradition. On the contrary, they bear witness to a state of mind that views us, the “others,” as strangers.

The policy of forcing oneself to tolerate something for which one has no sympathy whatsoever will, moreover, only erode the national culture. Pointing fingers and making moral judgments is not the way to enhance tolerance.

In light of the immigration from the Muslim world, it’s very important for us to be aware of the history of our Western democracy. It’s not true, after all, that we adopted democracy, with all the magnificent liberal values that accompanied it, and then developed a broad community of the people. On the contrary, our free society is a historical consequence of a communal society based on trust, a shared culture in which Christianity has naturally played a central role. Norway would not have managed to come together under our constitution, signed at Eidsvoll in 1814, if the country that produced it had been split along cultural and religious lines. The people whose representatives met at Eidsvoll were a people who shared essentially the same culture and religion and who could hence agree on the text upon which their nation was to be founded. The same thing happened when the Puritans settled in New England and built a society that grew into American democracy. It is actually somewhat odd to think that America owes the liberal democracy enshrined in its founding documents to a group of original settlers whose strong sense of community was based on conservative religion and illiberal traditions. It is, then, shared cultural norms, and not theoretical or abstract ideals of equality or international conventions, that lead people to stand shoulder to shoulder and to find community together. A liberal democracy such as that of Norway or Switzerland is not and never has been self-sustaining.

The minaret case, then, can be very critical for Europe’s future. How many minarets can Europe tolerate before our strong sense of communal connection is dissolved? What will happen, then, to our democracy’s liberal values and to the social harmony we have enjoyed? These are questions that most of the political parties in Norway and in a number of other European countries do not wish to address. As I wrote a few days ago, they absolutely refuse to recognize that Islam is an ideology and a social system, a religion of laws – a religion with a political orientation and with political ambitions. Yet Islam and Christianity are still treated by Norwegian (and European) officials as identical twins. This misguided way of thinking may end up costing us heavily. We must learn from the Swiss as quickly as possible – must learn, that is, to face up to, and respond appropriately to, the political and legal realities of the Islamic congregations in our midst.

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  • GRIZZ

    Fuck europe, we should bomb the fuck out of dearborn michigan

  • GRIZZ

    Mrs GRIZZ works in a major retailer and sees these fucks covered from head to toe more and more.
    She promptly removes herself from the blast zone immeadietley

  • Sully

    Will Euros put their foot down?

    lmao

    no

    (the return of franchie the frog in 3… 2… 1…… )

  • RexRedbone

    Those welling meaning Progressives EU memebers all a design Europe will be Islamized and so the march to the US will be Islamized

  • http://www.myspace.com/ssgduke ssgduke56

    It would take another World War before Europe does anything! Europe always do a wait and see attitude until it is too late and then tens of thousands to millions of innocent lives are lost. It would be wake up call for us but then thanks to Politically Correctness that have slithered in we can’t voice concern about Islam our Nation. For if we do we would be label a Racist and probably be sued by the corrupt propaganda Fascist mouthpiece CAIR.

  • punisher55

    IIslam is the perfect religion to control the people. Thats why the elites are letting this happen. They can’t wait to own slaves, torture, rape and pillage in the name of and with the blessings of allah

    • LechWalesa

      Annie, yeah d’ya know that even our taximen are Arabs… :mrgreen:

      … and with the flu, you better keep stuck behind your home door, I doubt that you could pass the check in at the airport !

    • http://www.urbandumpsterdiver.wordpress.com Annie Oakley

      Frenchie – this is last time I will even respond to your insipid stupid posts. I really don’t understand why you come onto a pro-American site.

      Your little flu comment didn’t go over my head. Keep stuck behind my home door?

      You’re the idiot. Arrogant French Bitch.

    • LechWalesa

      Did I offense you ?

      if so,be sure it wasn’t intentionally, though I understand that you don’t like me, and considering your good will towards me, I have no regrets not to see you coming into my country

  • http://www.urbandumpsterdiver.wordpress.com Annie Oakley

    Europeans are always making smart ass comments about Americans, we’re all fat, lazy and behind the times.

    Now Europeans are being invaded by those who would rather behead them than look at them. Who’s stupid now?

    • LechWalesa

      we are not more invaded than you, but we are reacting more than you
      see the afferent sites that talk about your dhimminitude

      one is my net friend “creeping..”

    • http://www.urbandumpsterdiver.wordpress.com Annie Oakley

      Frenchie – you can spin all your circular logic you want. You can continue to enlighten all of us “Americans” with your little URL’s, websites and other European dogma, but the results are still the same.

      The EU is being invaded by a group of wingnut psychopaths who would rather behead you than look at you.

      I don’t see swarms of Americans trying to immigrate to France or other European countries. I wouldn’t spend a penny in your filthy country.

  • Sully

    Yeah… Every time we turn up the heat, you frogs try to jump out of the pot.

    told ya.
    a Euro thread title brings franchie.

    Somebody grab a mop.
    One a them Socialist mops our poser potus likes.

    • LechWalesa

      normal, becuz you never stop trying to turn the heat on about us (with no sucess)

      your potus, isn’t an european product, but your own’s
      see who endoctrined him, the reverend, the chicago gangsta, your hippie freak … not educated in EU, but chez toi ! and they don’t refer to any of our political ideologues, but still digg into your own history….Lincoln… the south the secession war…
      your unions…

  • Randy

    http://www.popmodal.com/video/4008/Muslim-Demographics

    Watch this and you’ll freak out.

    • saepe expertus

      :shock: I noticed this a long time ago after I read a book called “the birth dearth”. I can’t remember the author’s name but I do remember the reception that the ‘twittering” class gave him. Not good. Kind of the same reaction that the “deniers” of global warming receive. His thesis is coming to pass in spades.

    • Lock and Load

      Yup, this video has popped up here a few times, and is always disturbing to watch, especially considering how Europe’s politicians are bending over backwards to avoid “insulting” islam. By doing so they are legally empowering the muslim community in anti-European cultural matters and giving silent assent to islamic culture as it slowly smothers Europe :evil:
      What was even more alarming to me was viewing comments on this video on youtube…. many people just refuse to see what is right in front of their faces :roll: :???:

    • TerryTate

      Exactly why we have nukes.

      Maximum overkill.

      Fuck the overwhelming numbers strategy.

      Nuke em from orbit.

      Problem solved.

  • YERMOM

    you guys think that chick knows that the Grim Reaper is behind her? (and apparently the Grim Reaper shops in boutiques)

    • trustme1013

      omg, the funniest thing I’ve heard all day!

  • Xparatwoopa

    I smell another rescue of the Frenchies like the one we had in the fourties… naw let em burn!

    • aboutTObegin

      yeah, let those Euro trash frenchies and all burn, they lost my sympathy when they turned their backs on us when we needed it for the war. AND when we invaded, GUESS what type of equipment we found over here in Iraq and take a guess where that equipment came from….you guessed it France and Germany! It was purchased during the embarge on Iraq, so there is one of the reasons why those betrayers didn’t support the invasion/war.

      -aTb
      FED UP Combat Vet votes let the Euro trash become conquered by the muslims without one single shot being fired, oh yeah, its cause their Government stripped them of owning weapons, panzies!

    • LechWalesa

      yeah, you are a soldier behind your PC

      you don’t know what your are talking about, you,

      Brainwashed idiot that repeats the the DC gang and MSM propaganda

      BTW, was any french WMD found ?

      I tell ya, only french planes were sold to Saddam when he was still a good friend of America

      But the Chimical stuff ( the supposed real WMD)that killed the Kurds was sold by America, and Germany, Chesney was the intermediary

      now if you nee true sources I can provide them to you, but I am sure it isn’t worthy

    • LechWalesa
    • LechWalesa
    • http://www.tipjarmusic.com James Hooker, Nipple Whisper

      :arrow: LechWalesa
      What the fuck did Kenny Chesney have to do with the Kurds?

    • LechWalesa

      James Hooker

      14. When Saddam did in fact “use chemical weapons against his own people”, he did so on the afternoon of 17 March 1988, against the Kurdish city of Halabja. The United States provided diplomatic cover by initially blaming Iran for the attack. The Reagan Administration tried to prevent criticism of the atrocity. The Bush (senior) administration authorised new loans to Saddam in order to achieve the “goal of increasing US exports and put us in a better position to deal with Iraq regarding its human rights record”.

      http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/040.html

      some pics of Chesney and saddam are still on the net

      though,

      none was innocent in that matter

      we had our part too

      but saying that we had the only evil part of the business is plain BS

    • aboutTObegin

      LEECHWALESA,

      stay in your peter puffing country and stay the hell out of our! we care no longer for your country and your homosexual society and as for me being a soldier and how I know nothing, well I was here in the invasion and can provide pics, what the hell can you provide besides links? you are a waste of breath and an oxygen thief as well as all of your countrymen, we should have allowed Germany to roll over you and keep you under their rule. I know my Grandfather is rolling in his grave to see how France and the euro trash have turned out when all of his brothers in arms laid their life down to free your societies. I icare not whether you believe me if I am a soldier or not, that’s besides the point, ask Pat to check my IP address and have him tell you where it leads to. So when your ready to provide fact rather than your fiction that comes out of your pole smoker, let me know, I will be waiting in this MWR/SPAWAR tent for your response.

      -aTb
      :mad: :mad: :mad:

  • TerryTate

    I see the chick walking down the street, but what’s with the big black shopping bag next to her?

    Is she bringing home daddy’s next victim from the human slave trade sale?

    • LechWalesa

      Double Tap

      sorry about that, an old habit

      I was educated in street fightings with children,

  • william ayres

    I think he meant to say cheney not chesney the country singer.

  • william ayres

    Oh by the way, I do have a French WW Two rifle for sale, never fired, just dropped once :lol: :lol:

    • LechWalesa

      are u sure that you haven’t stolen it from your kid ?

    • http://none gzero

      She didn’t get it.

    • LechWalesa

      Gzero, it’s a BS

      usely you people said that they were from your independence war, but we did fight it, otherwise you would still be subjects of the gracious Majesty of England !

      hello tommies !

    • http://none gzero

      Do you speak Romanish? That’s hot.

  • william ayres

    I know… :lol:

  • william ayres

    Geez, lighten up francis,It seems we both have the same problems,if we dont get a handhold on this religion of peace We Will All Be In Trouble.

    • LechWalesa

      I didn’t remark that we were complying to the islamists, actually, the appeasement is on your side

  • politicalfish

    Funny to read the french rationalizations for their failures in history and the present.
    :arrow: william ayres
    LechWalesa, who has in typical french fashion, retreated from the name ‘franchie’, is a female trained poodle who can type nonsense into a computer. The downside is she’s not house trained.

    • LechWalesa

      and you’re an idiot fish

    • politicalfish

      Perhaps, but at least I’m not french. :lol:

    • LechWalesa

      too bad fer ya, becuz your waters are very troubled

    • politicalfish

      The worst of troubled American waters are better, always, than the sewer waters that are france.

    • aboutTObegin

      well said PF, no need to give this troll annymore attention than she is trying to get. Thats why she is hanging around. She is quick to call people keyboard commandos, but she is the one who instantly responds to EVERY post.

      -aTb

  • william ayres

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

  • Sully

    As usual, franchie tries to be the same intellectual snob as the rest of her countrymen while displaying their ignorance.
    The very term “left-wing” is Jacobin.
    French philosophes from Rousseau and Robespierre, as well as the French Utopian Socialists Montesquieu and Fourier, HEAVILY influence the left in America yet franchie references Lincoln and Jeremiah Wright in the same sentence.
    lmao

    Their own tolerance of Muzzie usurpation, and our own frankly, is the direct result of French ‘left-wing’ Utopian philosophes.
    Barry Obama loves France so much He wishes He was franchie.
    Well… He sorta is.

    • LechWalesa

      sully,Jeremiah Wright and Lincoln were the personnalities that are “tied” to Obama (actually, on this blog), but Lincoln as an inspiring one for him, so, no French quoted there

      and I am not fealing guilty if your left read the above French, besides you did read them too, but rather Karl Marx was their model

      Now Robespierre wasn’t a philosoph, but a lawer !

      Their own tolerance of Muzzie usurpation, and our own frankly, is the direct result of French ‘left-wing’ Utopian philosophes.

      too bad, I thought that you were people with a self determination, that you rejected all what was French after you got your independence… just as did Obama, not so long time ago.

      didn’t he snobbed Sarkozy ?

  • Double Tap

    The bickering between Lech, Sully and everyone else with regard to the French bashing or French defense is not contributing anything to the discussion in this article or any of the dozen other articles that have been polluted with this meaningless banter.

    If you want to poke at each other like children, please find somewhere else to do it.

    • Sully

      Tough shit boss.

    • http://none gzero

      :lol: :lol: :lol: Don’t the french have to hire foreigners to fight their dirty battles?

    • LechWalesa

      Zero,
      only muslims are allowed, that’s why we constructed them minarets( :roll: ) during our colonial glorious times though,

      while you hired your “negroes” only for the intendance

    • Ayers(not Bill.)

      In the history of the Atlantic slave trade, the French turned four times as many Africans into slaves as the Americans did, they used them far more brutally, and French slavers not only got a head-start on Americans, they continued the slave trade — legally — until 1830, long after the rest of Europe had given it up. And they kept at it clandestinely until after the U.S. Civil War. France officially abolished slavery in its colonies only 14 years before Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, and then only under pressure from slave uprisings.

    • LechWalesa

      In the history of the Atlantic slave trade, the French turned four times as many Africans into slaves as the Americans did, they used them far more brutally, and French slavers not only got a head-start on Americans, they continued the slave trade — legally — until 1830, long after the rest of Europe had given it up. And they kept at it clandestinely until after the U.S. Civil War. France officially abolished slavery in its colonies only 14 years before Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, and then only under pressure from slave uprisings

      Rubbish, you didn’t even exist as a nation !

      Slaves trades begon in 1651 with the English, that wanted to get good gains out of the traffic that used to be of the Dutchs, danish and Portuges, followed in 1674 by the French

      Sayin that the French mistreated badly their slave is not knowing in what conditions they held american prisonners on their hulks, please have a look :

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_ship

      and for a better description see Louis Garneray’s books

      Slaves trade by us was abolished during the Revolution

      but retablished by Napoleon during his wars with England and the bickering with America about the lands along Missisipi, when he need bases in the Antilles

      Not only America (of the north) bought lots of slaves, but also the spanish colonies and Brazil

    • http://none WWTD

      wikipedia is your source…you’re a bore.

  • Sully

    lol
    dumbass French

    • LechWalesa

      idem of you

  • Sully

    That’s right Ayers.
    The Euros created the slave-based economy of early America.
    Another inconvenient (hidden) truth to the Marxists trying to use history to subvert our Republic.

    • Ayers

      And the french fall silently. Remember, if you make a problem you have to create new ones so the old fall out of sight.

    • LechWalesa

      but you bought them, hadn’t you wanted any, then no commerce, capitalism law of the offers and the needs !

    • Sully

      We weren’t ‘Americans’ in 1730 or 1750 or 1775 dumbass.
      We were ‘subjects’.

      Keep posting your Euro-Socialist bullshit though. It’s working out well for you.
      As usual.

    • LechWalesa

      ah that’s a big difference isn’t it double dumass !

      none own land in America except the English, but were the people expelled at the independance ?

      just the French that encountered a big american Bus for good services

    • aboutTObegin

      you are correct Ayers and Sully, but allow me to add to this a bit. There were two elements in the Slave Trade. One being, the African tribe (which still exists today) called TOUREG (appropriately named after the Volkswagon and Secondly the French and Europeans were the slave traders by sea. There were no AMERICAN ships sailing to Africa to purchase slaves for AMERICA at the time, the entire blame and fault AGAIN comes on the French and European shoulders. You can deny this, ya french troll, all you want, but that is the plain truth for ALL to see and if you don’t like, leave, we don’t want your ignorance here anyhow.

      -aTb

  • Sully

    WTF?
    you really are stupid franchie.
    French and Indian war? Fort Ticonderoga was a French fort surrendered by the French to England… In NEW YORK.
    New Orleans? Where the largest % of slaves reached America was a FRENCH port until sold by Napoleon.

    Get a fucking clue.

    • http://none WWTD

      Louie purchase. 11,250,000. How did we get here…led by the french.

    • LechWalesa

      stupid is as stupid you act

      New Orleans at the origin was a mere french colony, the people of la belle province of Quebec took the relay

      But what about Virginias, Carolinas, Alabama…
      no French there, but your ancestors

      ah the french surrendered in New York, good Lord, what were they doing there ?

      now in 1754, wasn’t an anglo-american coalition (with german volontaries) defeated at fort Necessity, where your great Washington surrendered to the French ?

      but no Irish were recorded, still eating the left potatoes by the English in their Island

    • LechWalesa

      WTMD

      uh, I think Napoleon did

    • LechWalesa

      Fort Carillon : 16000 English soldiers vs 3600 French

      but Montcalm did give some pain in the Brits ‘asses

      BTW it was the 200th aniversary in 2008

      only the next year the Brits benefitted that Montcalm had retired to Quebec could invest fort carillon, that was left with 400 french guards !

      uh, a great victory indeed LMAO

  • http://none WWTD

    wallechsa, you’re incoherent. Lay off the crack pipe.

  • Sully

    I’m through with your obfuscation franchie
    go get a clue and remember to be nice to Barry when we exile Him to France
    lol

    • LechWalesa

      get a clue, your Obama ain’t of french nor european culture, your arrogant suborness opened the fields for his venue. You’ll have to endure him until the bottom .

  • http://www.tipjarmusic.com James Hooker, Nipple Whisper

    Frenchie
    Yes, I was winding you up about Kenny Chesney, but, I must say this:
    .
    As a South Carolinian whose forebears fought the English, I still, to this day, thank the French for their aid – but, that was the France who still produced MEN who did not quake at the thought of sailing into harms way. That bloodline in France is GONE with YOUR revolution. I thank your forebears,yes, but France is now just a third world country with a first world address and things have changed. TWICE now, we, the US, have re-payed our debt to the once grand French fighting man – and, looking at recent headlines, we´ll probably have to do it again, because, that´s what we do as a nation – that´s why we exist. We take hills in other peoples lands and HOLD those hills for them until that nation we SAVE can re-claim them. THEN WE LEAVE. We have NEVER conquered ANY nation and remained as rulers.
    .
    Riddle me this: In the past 200 years or so, HOW MANY FRENCH FIGHTING MEN HAVE BOARDED TROOPSHIPS TO LIBERATE NATIONS TIME AND TIME AGAIN only to be derided and not a word of thanks afterward, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, and STILL, we return to LIBERATE them when their enemies are without or within the gates. Look around you. Any enemies at your gates now?

    I am now an American living in Europe, and NOT an ¨EX-PAT!¨- I SO FUCKING HATE THAT TERM!!! If America needs a 61 year old infantryman to help sort out a disagreement somewhere in Europe, I´ll drop my gin and tonic and grab the first thing smoking.

    Vive la France, God bless you Frenchie – I mean that, and God Bless America!

    • LechWalesa

      James I always have respected you for your sincerity and your sense of humor

      I hope you don’t mind if I bring some more water in the mills for us to your arguments

      Our men didn’t resign their fighting spirit with the revolution, but english speaking books aren’t prolix on legends to celebrate the French for good reasons.

      I can’t tell much of the 19 th century, except that our colonial wars were as so “glorious” as the english ones, there are many heroic facts left to the specialists.

      But I can recall among the lots, war of Crimea around 1850, won thanks to us, the English were worn out in that one, where, for the first time, we were allies.

      Mexican war, not an unforgotable war, but it’s from there that our légion étrangère took its motto, and since then, “Cameron” is celebrated each year by the légionnaires.

      I’m not talking of 1870 war with the Germans, lost !

      WW1 won, OK not alone but the biggest part was done by our non professional soldiers, and the “winner” spirit came with Marechal Foch, the coordinator of all the alliees, and Clemenceau at the head of our government

      WW2 won with the Alliees, not because of big legions of soldiers, but because our resistance has done such a good job that Dday could happen, but it’s also due to our french and colonial army in north Africa that opened the second front end of 1942, our maghrebin soldiers contributed to deliver Italy and were heroic at Monte Cassino.

      But if 100 000 of our soldiers had not sacrified their life in 1940 so that the english troops could rejoin UK at Dunkeerke, then nothing of this history could have been written.

      Dien Dien Phu isn’t a victory, quasi imposssible to win there with such an amount of Viets around this hole. Knowing that the cause was lost, our soldiers jumped in the hell though, for lots of them it was their first parachut jump

      Algeria war, won, our army criss-crossed every inch of Algeria territory, of course, reprehensible actions like torture were used.

      But de Gaulle forecasted islam conquest over our christian world, Algeria could have remained french, that means that a growing muslim population could travel to France as french citizens. In 1962 the ratio of population there was one million of French for 10 million of Algerians, so the calcul was evident, with such mathematical bases an ever ending guerilla was to be expectable, and a fashist government of southern Africa Apartheid type would have occured.

      So, in that case, I’m not imagining the foreign reactions, especially of America (where Kenedy made a discourse pro FLN) against France.

      Since then, many anti terrorist actions were undertaken, all were successful, among them, Mecca freeing, during Giscard d’Estaing governance, Kolvesy, Alger plane hijack…

      So, it’s not because we didn’t participate to the 2nd Irak operation that we aren’t fighting elsewhere, our soldiers are present in many african countries, in Yougoslavia, Lebanon, Afghanistan !

      Don’t say that we are complying to the jihadist requests, we are the country that said no to the veils, burkas, and also where we organise islam religion as a christian type, with a head like a french pope, and where imans are obliged to pass degrees in french languages and laws if they don’t want to be expell.

      No I return you the question since the war of independance, what are your victories, apart WW2 that is your main slogan ? :lol:

      uh, I know that you’re living in Spain, I was there last month and in Portugal too

    • LechWalesa

      James, I made you a long reply, hope it will be edited

    • LechWalesa
  • GRIZZ

    if it wasnt for the french,who would cook for the nato forces?

    • LechWalesa

      none my dear, cuz shit is the usual term for your food :mrgreen:

    • GRIZZ

      you shouldnt talk about your mother like that

    • GRIZZ

      Nothing like a self loathing frenchman.
      But it will get better frenchie,you will eventually die.

    • LechWalesa

      you eventually before me, so who’s gonna be missed the most ?

    • GRIZZ

      ask your mom,after she makes my bed

    • GRIZZ

      ask Sully

    • LechWalesa

      you know Grizz your sense of humor is a bit fool smelling

      you like to make bad jokes on us, but you don’t appreciate that they can be responsed with the same ton

      so long ol man, you can have all the beers you want on my account as long as they are your buddies

  • Political.fish

    Yawn :roll:

    • LechWalesa

      bisquits made of granules for fishes are the usual food for Nato and american soldiers, so when they are invited to a french kitchen, they appreciate their pleasure

  • Noway2no

    No one but the French will miss the French.

    • LechWalesa

      except those that read our philosophers :idea:

  • saepe expertus

    zzzzzzzzzz :roll: This guy ain’t even French. He is as American as the rest of us although he is a provocateur, and a bored and boring one at that and about to push me over the edge.

  • Jeanet

    Hello……ehm…HELLOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’m European too. So if TSHTF, will some one come and rescue me???

    Not every European is a donkey….hello?…some one their….??

    • http://www.tipjarmusic.com James Hooker, Nipple Whisper

      Jeanet
      I´ll jump on the first ferry to Barcelona, drive to wherever you are, and, have a drink. You´re buyin!

    • Jeanet

      Thank you so much Sir. Now,you are a gentleman :mrgreen:

      That would be the boat from Barcelona up North towards Rotterdam although I’d suggest you stay on it for another 2 hours until you’ve reached the harbor of Delfzijl.

      You see, up here in the North from the Netherlands, (compare this part of NL with how Americans, and ofcourse every libtard thinks about rednecks), life is still pretty okay compared with what we call Holland. (That is “the bastion Holland” where the idiots live who have sold out this beautiful country since the eighties.)

      During WWII the Westerns came to us for food, in the sixties they robbed our natural gas-sources, in the nineties they send every muslim immigrant towards us to “adapt” and these days there is talk about tearing down little villages and put nuclear waist in the ground. See the obvious tendency to kill us off??!!

      Maybe you witnessed my writing and comments over here, Sir. But in case you’re not sure yet, ask The Man (a.k.a. Pat.) who I truly am. And dear God YESSS, I’d welcome American troops again to scoop up the shit Europe is in right now. That is, on my bare knees crying for joy as my grandparents and parents once did in 1945.

      Ofcourse unless I make my promiss come trought; die with a big BANG.
      (Putting on my racey black lace gurther and bra, filled with explosives, adorned with my Fuck-You little black dress on high heels, walking into the biggest Dutch Mosque during friday-prayers and blow myself up.)
      But only if there is no chance left anymore to clean up Dutch soil from the nasty creatures that should crawl back underneith the stones they came crawling from.

      Untill that time this little soldiers just battles on and, SHE IS NOT FRENCH :cool:

      With my kindest regards,
      Jeanet.
      (Volunteer to 13th Inf. Batt. RSPB Air Assault and darn proud of it.)

  • LechWalesa

    American troops in Afghanistan through the eyes of a French OMLT infantryman

    The US often hears echoes of worldwide hostility against the application of its foreign policy, but seldom are they reached by the voices of those who experience first hand how close we are to the USA. In spite of contextual political differences and conflicting interests that generate friction, we do share the same fundamental values – and when push comes to shove that is what really counts. Through the eyes of that French OMLT (Operational Mentoring Liaison Teams) infantryman you can see how strong the bond is on the ground. In contrast with the Americans, the French soldiers don’t seem to write much online – or maybe the proportion is the same but we just have less people deployed. Whatever the reason, this is a rare and moving testimony which is why I decided to translate it into English, so that American people can catch a glimpse of the way European soldiers see them. Not much high philosophy here, just the first hand impressions of a soldier in contact – but that only makes it more authentic.

    http://tinyurl.com/yejchel

    • saepe expertus

      Lech,
      :beer: Thank you for the post. Merci beaucoup!

    • LechWalesa

      65 ans de la bataille des Ardennes à Bastogne. http://bit.ly/7ufftX

      the 65th anniversary of the Ardennes battle is fested in Bastogne

      saepe expertus :beer:

    • anubis

      We don’t “share common values” with France.
      That’s Socialist propaganda.

    • Ayers(LCpl Type)

      Frenchie,

      Thanks for that post. It was an interesting read. I think that at times we can all be arrogant swine. and really no matter what facts are put in front of us, everyone is going to believe exactly what they themselves want to.

    • LechWalesa

      Anubis, brainwashed by your board master ?

      you’re not a soldier, that’s why !

    • Ayers(LCpl Type)

      Agreed. Anubis, it really doesn’t matter what country you’re from, when you’re in the shit even if you can’t understand each other linguistically, you have a bond emotionally and mentally.

  • Rudemeister

    I just got back from living in Germany for a year. Most of my family lives in The Netherlands too. Trust me, the Europeans are getting fed up. During the elections in Germany I saw a bunch of anti-Turk posters. My family wants them to either respect the Netherlands and embrace Dutch culture or get the heck out.

    • saepe expertus

      Rudemeister,
      Thanks for the post. Very encouraging. I can’t stand the thought of the Europeans going into the Islamic night under the black flag of the Prophet without another Charles Martel emerging. I don’t give a damn what the politically correct elites say, it is a showdown to the death between civilizations and their respective visions for mankind. I hope to heaven that it isn’t to late demographically to turn the tide.

    • Rudemeister

      In California we import Mexicans to do the cheap labor most Americans won’t do. In Europe they had been importing Turks, Moroccans and other Muslims. Turkey has applied to enter the EU because part of Istanbul is in Europe. They also use Latin script in their writing, not Arabic. But it was the Ottoman Muslim Turks that took Constantinople from Europe in a war of aggression. Without that seizure, they are not part of Europe at all. I’ve talked to a few Europeans that think it should be given back to Greece. They don’t want Turkey into the EU. The Mexicans we have in California are at least mostly Catholics. I have many Latino friends whose families have greatly assimilated into American culture. All the cheap imported laborers in Europe are Muslims that are not assimilating. Those that have moved to Dearborn Michigan are converting that area into Dearbornistan. I do not have problems with the people, but I do have problems with Islam. Islam is a religio/political philosophy that calls for world domination by the sword. If these people are not defeated in the marketplace of free thought, they will have to be stopped by military means. They will never just allow the west to live in peace.

    • saepe expertus

      Rudemeister,
      I think you are spot on in your analysis. That is precisely where and why we are losing – in the battlefield of the mind and the ability to express religious and political thought bound and gagged by political correctness. For them to leave us alone is to go against Allah. Ain’t happening.

    • Rudemeister

      Instead of relying on hearsay, I encourage you to read the Koran yourself and decide what an evil document this fiction is. This way others will not be able to fool you into thinking this is another Holy book like the Bible. I agree with Geert Wilders in the Netherlands. It is more like Mein Kampf. That is a book that is banned because of it’s hateful content in most of Europe. BTW, in the Arab world, there is still a great deal of respect for Adolf Hitler and Nazism. They all hate Jews.

    • karl anglin

      Muslims respect one culture only —Muslim culture!

  • Dee

    I have been telling friends, for the past 30 years; to go to Europe before it is taken over by Islam. I learned when I was in Turkey how they treat others, and when I saw what European countries were doing with bringing in cheap labor that they had planted the seeds of the death of their cultures. The end is now near.