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Man Has Guns Seized For Future Crime



Mar 25, 2010 35 Comments ›› Pat Dollard

minority-report-4-1280

Reason:

To hear them tell it, the five police agencies who apprehended 39-year-old Oregonian David Pyles early on the morning of March 8 thwarted another lone wolf mass murderer. The police “were able to successfully take a potentially volatile male subject into protective custody for a mental evaluation,” announced a press release put out by the Medford, Oregon, police department. The subject had recently been placed on administrative leave from his job, was “very disgruntled,” and had recently purchased several firearms. “Local Law Enforcement agencies were extremely concerned that the subject was planning retaliation against his employers,” the release said. Fortunately, Pyles “voluntarily” turned himself over to police custody, and the legally purchased firearms “were seized for safekeeping.”

This voluntary exchange involved two SWAT teams, police officers from Medford and nearby Roseburg, sheriff’s deputies from Jackson and Douglas counties, and the Oregon State Police. Oregon State Police Sgt. Jeff Proulx explained to South Oregon’s Mail Tribune why the operation was such a success: “Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach.”

There’s just one problem: David Pyles hadn’t committed any crime, nor was he suspected of having committed one. The police never obtained a warrant for either search or arrest. They never consulted with a judge or mental health professional before sending out the military-style tactical teams to take Pyle in.

“They woke me up with a phone call at about 5:50 in the morning,” Pyles told me in a phone interview Friday. “I looked out the window and saw the SWAT team pointing their guns at my house. The officer on the phone told me to turn myself in. I told them I would, on three conditions: I would not be handcuffed. I would not be taken off my property. And I would not be forced to get a mental health evaluation. He agreed. The second I stepped outside, they jumped me. Then they handcuffed me, took me off my property, and took me to get a mental health evaluation.”

By noon the same day, Pyles had already been released from the Rogue Valley Medical Center with a clean bill of mental health. Four days later the Medford Police Department returned Pyle’s guns, despite telling him earlier in the week—falsely—that he’d need to undergo a second background check before he could get them back. On Friday the Medford Police Department put out a second press release, this time announcing that the agency had returned the “disgruntled” worker’s guns, and “now considers this matter closed.

That seems unlikely. Pyles’ case has spurred outrage in the gun rights community. Kevin Starrett of the Oregon Firearms Federation has been advising Pyles, and helped get his guns back. Oregon-based syndicated conservative talk radio host Lars Larson has taken up the story. And Pyles is now attorney shopping for a possible civil rights lawsuit.

At root behind this case and others like it is our naïve, hopeful, and sometimes even dangerous belief that every horrible shooting spree or lone-wolf act of terrorism can be prevented. We seem unable to accept the idea that bad people will occasionally do bad things. Every new mass shooting spurs an urge to assign blame beyond the shooter: What political ideology inspired him? Who missed the “warning signs,” and why wasn’t he apprehended ahead of time? Gun retailers are scrutinized and vilified, even when they’ve complied with the law. In ensuing days and weeks, politicians mull new laws, often both ineffective and constricting on our liberty.

There’s nothing wrong with looking for signs that someone is about to snap, and if he’s putting up multiple red flags, we’d certainly want law enforcement to investigate, possibly to chat with the person and his friends and family. And obviously if someone has made specific threats, a criminal investigation should follow. But that’s a far cry from what happened to Pyles.

Pyles’ problems began last June after a series of grievances with his employer, the Oregon Department of Transportation. “This was always a professional thing for me,” he says. “It was never personal. We were handling the grievances through the process stipulated in the union contract.” Pyles declined to discuss the nature of the complaints, citing stipulations in his contract.

On March 4, Pyles was placed on administrative leave, which required him to work from home. On March 5, 6, and 7, after getting his income tax refund, he made three purchases of five firearms. Pyles describes himself as a gun enthusiast, who had already owned several weapons. All three new purchases required an Oregon background check, which would have prohibited the transactions had Pyles ever been convicted of a felony or a misdemeanor involving violence, or been committed by the state to a mental health institution. Pyles says he has no criminal record, and says he never threatened anyone in his office. (A specific threat of violence would have likely brought a criminal charge.) The Oregon State Police, the Medford Police Department, and the Oregon Department of Transportation did not respond to requests for comment.

“In my opinion, the apprehension of David Pyles was a violation of Oregon’s kidnapping laws,” says James Leuenberger, a criminal defense attorney who is also advising Pyles. “He definitely deserves to be compensated for what they did to him, but even if he wins a civil rights suit, that will just result in the officers’ employers paying for their mistakes.” That of course means the final tab will be paid by Oregon’s taxpayers, not the offending cops. “I want these law enforcement officials held personally responsible,” Leuenberger says. “I want them criminally charged.”

It’s hard to see that happening. Joseph Bloom, a psychiatrist at Oregon Health & Science University and a specialist in civil commitment law, says the police who apprehended and detained Pyles were likely acting under the cover of Oregon law. Bloom says the police are permitted to make a determination on their own to take someone in for a mental health evaluation—there’s no requirement that they first consult with a judge or mental health professional. Bloom believes this is a wise policy. “It’s important to remember that this is a civil process,” he says. “There’s no arrest, these people aren’t being taking to jail. It’s not a criminal action.”

So SWAT teams, guns, and handcuffs…but not a criminal action? And what if Pyles had refused to “voluntarily” surrender to the police? “Well, yes,” Bloom says. “I guess then it would become a criminal matter.”

If what happened to Pyles is legal, in Oregon or elsewhere, we need to take a second look at the civil commitment power. Even setting aside the SWAT team overkill in Medford, there’s something awfully discomfiting about granting government authorities the power to yank someone from their home and drag them in for a mental health evaluation based on a series of actions that were perfectly legal, especially with no prior oversight from a judge, or guidance from a psychiatrist.

“The idea that Pyles turned himself in voluntarily is ridiculous,” says Starrett, the gun rights activist. “There’s nothing voluntary about waking up to a SWAT team outside your home, then having a police negotiator call and suggest you surrender. They had no arrest warrant. But Pyles only had one option. If he didn’t come out on his own, they were going to come in to get him.”

Even if the apprehension of Pyles was legal, the seizure of his guns wasn’t. Because civil commitment laws aren’t criminal in nature, they don’t carry authorization for the police to search a private residence. According to Pyles, he closed the door behind him as he left his home. Because the police didn’t have a search warrant, they had no right to even enter Pyles’ home, much less seize guns inside that he bought and possessed legally.

For a potential mass murderer, Pyles is remarkably placid and big-picture about what happened to him. “I’ve been looking for a new job for months,” he says. “But given the economy, I’m pretty lucky to be getting a paycheck, even given all of this. For me, this is about civil rights. This seems like something the NRA and the ACLU can agree on. South Oregon is big gun country. If something like this can happen here, where just about everyone owns a gun, it can happen anywhere.”


  • http://1913intel.com -osgo-

    I’d love to hear everyone’s opinion of this… Either the guy goes along or State-Assisted Suicide.

    This is why groups are important…if a local SWAT org. can do this, what else can other gov’t agencies do?

  • Mr. Standfast

    And how many “oath keepers” work in the Medford police department?

    I’m disgruntled about healthcare and have recently purchased 3 AR lowers. I guess I better expect the swat teams outside my door.

    This must be challenged in the courts as being unconstitutional.

  • http://HBCIndy.com Dr. Jerry

    This is the coming trend from the Obama Administration and its cohorts in Federal and local law enforcement.

    Expect them to disarm many of us on these terms! Or, I should say: Disarm and incarcerate many of us on these terms!

    Without a criminal charge, without a ciminal case, without a judicial warrant! Only because they are “concerned” we might “act in the future.”

    Look out Brothers and Sisters…they are coming for us all!

  • http://www.grandrants.wordpress.com Stoutcat

    To quote our revered VP, this is a big f*ing deal! It’s a stunning over-reach of power, and it’s chilling to think that it could happen here.

  • Professor Bill

    And the individual cops excuse will be “I was only doing my job.” Perhaps that’s what the SS should have said when they were tried and hanged, instead of saying
    “I was only following orders”.

    The average SWAT team member is just itching to put on their storm trooper uniform, grab their M4 and go kick in a door, even if its a totally defenseless innocent citizen. That adrenaline rush and the feeling they get imagining what it must be like to be a SEAL or Green Beret running special ops is worth trampling the rights of the people who they are supposed to work for.

    This idea of a “thin blue line” and “to protect and to serve” is utter bullshit in many cases.

    • Chuck O

      They don’t have the balls to be a SEAL, Green Beret or even an 11B. Soldiers go up against automatic weapons, bombs and suicide bombers. They’re away from home for months. The cops go up against old ladies and teenage kids. They get to home at the end of an 8 hour shift. There is a big difference. Most cops would piss their pants if they ever had to face what a soldier faces.

    • http://HBCIndy.com Dr. Jerry

      Chuck O – I am completely opposed to the actions taken by the law enforcement personnel in the above case. However, it is incorrect to discredit all police officers.

      Having servecd in both the U S Army and local law enforcement for over 30 plus years between the two, I can tell you that not all police officers are cowards, wanna b’s, or frauds. Most have served in the military before becoming a police officer and some are serving in the Guard and Reserves concurrently.

      I believe that most upper eschelon police personnel are liberal in their thoughts and beleifs. Most down the rank officers are our type of people. And under orders do some things we do not like.

      I would hope that we could win some of them over to our side…we made need them to assist us very soon.

  • Odin2012

    Laws? Laws? We don’t need no stinking laws!
    Obama and the storm troopers.

    • proud2beaninfidel

      Laws? “……..Rules? We doesn’t need no rules. We make ‘em up as we go along.” See the mentality? That moron was a former Federal judge who got thrown off the bench. Now he’s holding higher office. Why? Because he is one of Obama’s radical minions who are running the show.

      This is what we’re up against. There is no such thing as “law & order” or respect for the Constitution by the ruling elite. This controlling, “we know what’s best for you” mentality is spreading like cancer and needs to be surgically removed, if you get my drift.

      Thank God that folks like Lars Larson are using the microphone to combat this “stinkin’ thinkin.”

      Makes you think twice about getting a conceal/carry permit. It just registers you with the local government gestapo as a potential threat. Anyone who opposed Obamacare is now a terrorist incited by the likes of Glenn Beck et al who decry this mockery of what’s left of a once great nation.

      Now is the time for all good men (and women) to come to the aid of our country.

  • Sully

    What’s remarkable is that the ‘law’ was never challenged in court by anyone prior to this incident.

  • CPLViper

    Wait … the story says this guy voluntarily turned himself over to the police … but the word “voluntarily” was quoted. That act of turning oneself over to authorities has no gray areas. He either did or he didn’t. That said, it doesn’t sound like the guy would have had the stones to perform the acts that the police believe he would have performed if left to his own accord. My guess is the dude would have sat at home, mumbling under his breath, mad at the world with the guns sitting in a closet not seeing the light of day.

    I CANNOT BELIEVE I AM EVEN COMMENTING ON THIS! THE WHOLE PREMISS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

    Now, set the freak free, give him back his property until you see him aim a gun at someone in anything other than in defense. And … if you let law abiding citizens carry their own weapons, if or when this freak tried anything, he would be put down before the police could even be called.

    • http://1913intel.com -osgo-

      Agreed….my town is open-carry, and if someone freaked, your scenario would happen. Grandma’s have guns here…

      Out of the many places and countries I’ve lived in…I’ve never felt safer. That’s a feeling I can’t quite describe but am glad for.

    • Tim Roesch – pseudo intellectual

      Should we be flooding the Police Departments involved with requests that they remember their oaths?

      Send them links to OathKeepers?

    • SassySuz

      Glad you stil remember Tim

  • serfer62

    The country, police department and swat supervisor are all liable.
    This is a must-go-to-court case.
    1) criminal court to penalize all involved
    2) civil court to extract massive cash penalities
    MAKE THEM PAY AND PAY AND PAY!!!!

    • dacoelec

      100% right!

  • GregGS

    Guess Pyles wasn’t a “3 percenter”

    This is the mind set of the police in this country, and they fall back on “I was just doing my job” No telling what will be in their job description by the next decade.

    It reminds me of a joke 30 years back about a guy calling up the local police station to tell them that he’s barricaded himself in his house with a gun and he said he’s not coming out, so they hang up and go about their business. That’s just not the case any more.
    The more you demand to be left alone….

  • Tyler520

    To be honest, we may not have heard the entire story – he may very well have made threats against peoples’ lives. I prefer to give the police the benefit of the doubt, as I keep my fingers crossed that they side with The People. All too often we read misinformation peddled by the left that contains all-out lies.

    ON THE OTHER HAND, if this story is accurate, I shall wait wagerly fto hear the opinion of the leftists on this “illegal use of the Patriot Act,” which they so adamantly criticized and renounced (without success or accuracy) for the last 8 years – I guess when the shoe is on the other foot, all is fair in love and war.

    • ArchInfidel

      Actually I have heard the whole story, He has a libtard boss, whom he was having a disagreement with and she put him on “leave” to work from home and he filed a union complaint, so she called the cops and said he was deranged.

      He used his tax rebate to buy some guns this year BEFORE he was put on leave, but because of a mandatory wait period he had to wait until after his leave to pick them up. Because he bought more than 1 pistol at a time the gunshop had to inform local pd, they flipped out put him under watch, staked out his house and went full retard at 5am monday morning.

      After he “voluntarily” surrendered they went into his home without a warrant confiscated all the guns he bought and all the rest of his guns in his collection without a warrant, put him in a mandatory mental eval, which he passed with flying colors and had to be set free.

      Now once he layered up and threatened lawsuit the cops returned his property but still maintained they did nothing wrong.

  • http://articulatingmount.com Texasgamer

    I have a bad feeling that the next few years are going to be rough. It’s time to start preparing for the eventual revolution thats coming… :gun: :gun: :gun:

    • dacoelec

      Yup.

  • FuckTheTaliban

    Out Gun them my friends….We have more fire power than them. It is going to come to an apex very soon so be prepared. Plus I’m pretty sure we are better at combat than those who never served. God Bless the U.S. military.

  • ji

    The only reason they want gun records is so they can find the guns and take them away from you.
    Criminals dont keep records.

  • Odin2012

    They can have my guns….bullets first. :gun:

  • Tom in CO

    Hah, I liked minority report. This is pretty funny :gun:

  • angryamerican

    I wonder how long we are going to be able to keep our weapons.. The Parasite tried a total gun ban in Illinois but that got defeated. He is still of the same mentality and will try the same with this country if he gets the chance.

    • SassySuz

      After he tries to legalize the Mexs :gun:

  • dwall

    Obama has said several times he would like his own police force. Could the 16,000 new IRS enforcers be the beginning? Have they ordered weapons like the dept of Education bought new shotguns?

  • Roger T.

    As a LEO, it is my opinion that this is complete an utter BS that never should have happened. I sincerely hope that Mr. Pyles reaches some fiscally beneficial resolution that puts the morons that initiated this stupidity in their place. Unfortunately, like Dr. Jerry stated; “most upper eschelon police personnel are liberal in their thoughts and beliefs.” It is the rank and file that do the job for the sake of their family and neighbors and not for some socio/political agenda. It is bad enough that too many citizens think we are all jack booted thugs with inferiority complexes anyway and then people that should know better pull a stupid stunt like this. LEO’s are supposed to deal with people’s actions and not their perceived thoughts.

    • http://1913intel.com -osgo-

      Very well said, Roger…thank you.

      I do think if more people went on a ‘Ride’a'long’ they would come away with a different perspective and appreciation of normal/great LEO’s….my experience has been the higher the politics, the less policing.

      Hang in there!

  • SC

    Where is the connection between his work and the cops? Did someone call the police and say watch this guy? Did the cops get a RED flag because he purchased 3 weapons and then check up on him? This is wrong from the get go. Watch out here they come…

  • Tom1981

    Let’s not forget that we can put a stop to some of this ourselves right here and now by using tools like jury nullification. For those unfamiliar with it, see the following:

    http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zenger/nullification.html

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163877,00.html

    http://fija.org/

  • survivorman

    This is crazy lock and load :gun:

  • Stixxx

    Chuck O. Mar. 25

    Your “dead on” with your comment!