First thing I thought too.

My thoughts exactly.  All the images I’ve seen (and it’s pretty much all above) looks like we had monkeys taking the footage. In a few glimpses it appears to be him… but the majority of it looks intentionally skewed to prevent postive ID (or lack thereof).  Libya was an extremely progressive and quite an advanced country.  Citizens did not pay for electricity, school, medical, dental, pharmaceuticals… people were paid to marry, paid to have children, the government could pay up to 50% of an auto purchase, overseas higher education was paid by the government, gasoline at .15 cents a gallon, unemployment checks were equivalent to over $700 US dollars… and the list goes on.  We’ll see what happens when the folks who wanted control over his oil start figuring out a way to run the country.

Of course Libya’s economy is based on oil. As Gerald Celente comments, would the west be interested in these places if their major export was broccoli? You seem to have the opinion that “petrol dollars” have their own mind and magically distribute themselves outside of government control.

I saw Libya and Turkey in 1973, and I research what I can today. And regardless of the finger pointing and Ghaddafi’s “what if it *was* me?” challenges to the US accusations over terrorism, the nation’s population appears to be quite content. I just can’t see where Ghaddafi subjugated and kept the lives of his citizens overtly restricted.

Let’s ask some questions or uncover a few things that are less reported by the media machinery; credit Scalar:

Western governments owe 200 Billion dollars to Libya for the crude oil that was already delivered before NATO alliance started bombing Libya.

2012 is when the Libyan concession to big Western oil companies was to end, and they could no longer exploit Libya’s oil wells without meeting new standards and costs.

Before the Western military attacked Libya, Gaddafi had asked the West to pay what they owed or he would make alternative deals with China, India, and other countries that are very interested in obtaining the resource.

Ghaddafi was trying desperately to dump the US dollar in favor of a Gold standardized currency.

Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Man-Made River project – to make water readily available throughout the desert regions.

Around 6.3 million Libyan citizens own 14 million registered cars. Two cars per each Libyan citizen is a better car ownership average than that of most prosperous Western countries.

In Libya the healthcare (complete medical, dental, and pharmaceutical) and ALL schooling, are 100% free.

The average Libyan college student has a monthly allowance of up to 2000 euros per month, and housing, food, and a car allowance are also available for those students.

Libya does not charge its citizens AT ALL for water, electricity, or natural gas.

There are NO TAXES, and all loans are interest-free. And, in case someone legitimately cannot repay their loan – the government of Libya can (and does) write it off.

Real Estate “brokerage services” are illegal. All land that is traded, is traded directly between buyer and seller. Home ownership is considered a human right.

Before the Western military attacked Libya, it cost about 5 euros to fill in a typical automobile gas tank.

In Libya, a car can be 3 times less expensive than anywhere else, as the Libyan government can potentially pay as much as 2/3 of the vehicle cost, depending on the citizen’s application.

All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar(US$50,000) from the government to buy their first apartment to help start the family.

25% of Libyans have a university degree.

Before Ghaddafi, only 25% of Libyans were literate. Today the figure is 83%. Not perfect, but good.

Libya has no external debt.

If a Libyan is unable to get employment after higher education, the state pay’s the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found. (I call that unemployment).

A mother who gives birth to a child in Libya receives US$ 5,000.

40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15 US

$150 billion in Libyan externally invested assets are now frozen globally.

The guy doesn’t rate up there with John F. Kennedy or any of my other favorite folks, but there’s just no evidence of a suffering people that are begging to be out from under his governance. Western nations attacked Libya not because Ghaddafi is a dictator, but because he is NOT a puppet to the will of the western world.

Let’s look at some widely circulated societal data:

http://www.mongabay.com/history/libya/libya-social_welfare_health_and_welfare.html

I don’t get your point.  You state the US should concern itself with foreign events but then you go on to state that it’s none of our business who runs the governments of foreign countries.

And, as far as who runs certain countries, it damn well is in our interest to know who’s running the show considering our energy dependence as well as the proliferation of more dangerous weapons in the hands of Islamic fundamentalists.

I don’t get your point.  You state the US should concern itself with foreign events but then you go on to state that it’s none of our business who runs the governments of foreign countries.

And, as far as who runs certain countries, it damn well is in our interest to know who’s running the show considering our energy dependence as well as the proliferation of more dangerous weapons in the hands of Islamic fundamentalists.

Not to mention the false assertion that the interim leadership is ‘secular’.  What a jackass.

People with your mentality, thinking that the U.S should not concern itself with foreign events are what led partly and indirectly to 9/11. What is happening in Tunisia ? What is happening in Egypt ? All I see are secular interim governments until the citizens, for once, have a say in deciding who run their countries. If they choose Islamic governments. So be it. It’s their choice. Who are you to predict who will run these arab states months from now ? some credentials please… Your arrogance is simply idiotic.

I think France is the biggest winner. Sarkozy learned from his mistake in Tunisia, and seized the moment when he saw the first sparks of the Libyan revolution. He was the one who started it all. I wish you could have seen the political prisons that Ghaddafi operated. The only difference between Gaddafi and Saddam is that Gaddafi did not have a big army and did not have the curse that Saddam had which was Shia Sunni and Kurds under one roof. That’s why he didn’t seem as a ruthless ruler to the outsiders. Ask the Libyan people… they know.

During the Tunisian revolution, Sarkozy did not condemn Ben Ali for killing civilians. The French foreign minister Michelle Alliot Marie, was vacationing in Tunisia and flying around the country in a private Jet owned by a successful businessman with direct blood ties to the Tunisian ‘ruling family’, while protesters on the ground were being shot at. The U.S and most West European governments condemned the Tunisian government’s way of suppressing the demonstrations. But not France. Tunisia was a french protectorate not too long ago. Consequently, French has strong ties and  a lot of control over Tunisia’s Affairs. Just like the U.S has over Egypt.

The foreign minister even proposed to send the French anti riot police CRS to Tunisia to help the Tunisian government to massacre the Tunisian Civilians. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/18/french-minister-tunisia-offer. Sorry I could not find a subtitled version of her proposal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pHORBsfNR8&feature=related She later resigned as a consequence. Sarkozy’s biggest mistake, is that he was slow to act and support the Tunisian revolution. The Tunisians will not forget that. When things in Libya started heating up, he did not want to repeat the same mistake, and immediately showed support for the Libyan rebels. Just as an anecdote, I remember few years ago when Gaddafi was invited to Paris. He set up his desert tent right in the back yard of l’Elysee and requested all the French government officials  including Sarkozy meet him in his tent. It was on the French news back in 07 I think. 
With his wholehearted support for the Libyan revolution. I am sure Sarkozy will be placed first in line when it’s time to cash in…. U.S Iraq anyone ???

In my opinion, The west was fine with the previous leaders in the Arab world. Barack, Cameron, Sarkozy, Berlusconi.. They all wish things stayed the way they were. The Arab puppet leaders were keeping Islamists at bay, and were no threat to Israel. 

All this was bound to happen sooner or later. It’s just History repeating itself. The domino effect of these Arab uprisings all started by one man: Moahmed Bou Azizi, a Tunisian graduate working as a street vendor who could not find work and set himself on fire after being taunted by local police. It was the straw that broke the camels back. Tunisians took to the street. Chased their dictator out of the country. Egyptians saw what happened and Tunisia and thought they too could kick Mubarak out. So did the Libyans, the Syrians…

There is a reason why Assad is still running Syria. Both Tunisian and Egyptian military receive training and support from the U.S military. When things got hot. The U.S picked up the phones and ordered The military commanders in Tunisia and Egypt to kick Ben Ali and Mubarak who both were strong American supporters out. They  just became a liability.
The U.S does not have military ties with Syria therefore they could not order the ousting of Assad. That is why he is still in power. They do not want to oust the ruler of Bahrain even though they could. Simply because Bahrain is a majority Shiite ruled by a minority Muslims. If Shiite take over Bahrain it will become an extension of Iran. The U.S will do everything in its power to keep the ruler of Bahrain in power.

As for the Libyan jails, I saw videos taken by the rebels of the torture centers which are all over the Arab world. Some of which were used by the U.S to interrogate Islamic terrorists. Gaddafi was just as ruthless as Ben Ali, Assad and Saddam. Look at what happened in Misrata. He besieged the town. Raised it to the ground, Shelled it with heavy artillery Cut off the water and electricity on Civilians for over a month. Raped and killed women and kids… He deserved to die.

I would like to see those videos, but I can tell you in advance that if they appeared any time within just the past 6 months, that I will place them, initially, in the deepest hole of the “propaganda” category.

The man had every right to fight back against a CIA inspired coup de e’tat. Do you supposed for a single second that if the Occupy Wall Street movement decided that it was time to replace the American president and Congress, and actually took up arms provided by another country against Washington, that the US Military (especially with the loss of the Posse Comitatus Act) wouldn’t do everything in it’s power to crush and destroy the uprising, regardless of collateral damage? Same scenario for the most part, less the exaggeration about Ghaddafi raping people.

We’re seriously straying for the Libya issue here, though I see most of your points. Again, those points relate to America’s ability to manipulate foreign governments (by assassination, occupation, bribery or CIA influence) in order to serve an end need which is still based on corporate greed and has nothing to do with “national security”.

At least you admit to seeing how America is in fact manipulating the world… and I’m personally not too darned proud of those actions. They will ultimately be a major contributing factor the downfall of the nation.

Cheers,

 ”They will ultimately be a major contributing factor the downfall of the nation.” History repeating itself. It’s inevitable. Excellent statement, but what is the alternative to the U.S playing world police ? Russia or China would rise and play a part in the U.S’s demise even faster. Policing the world the U.S way, is, in my opinion, the only way to go.

As for Gadhafi, besieging and bombarding a city to the ground without discrimination is a war crime. The U.S could have done the same in Fallujah but they sacrificed soldier going door to door to sniff out the insurgents in an attempt to do things by the book. You can also google the Abu Salim massacre of 1996 to get a glimpse at Gadafi’s rule. I remember he had students hung in public because they protested against his rule. 

This was not a coup d’etat like the one he did back in 69 or like the one Ben Ali did in 87. This was a people’s revolution. It’s criminal to kill your own people just so you can stay in power to amass even more billions and to satisfy your own ego or for fear from being prosecuted for previous crimes.

Common no one man will stay in power for 42 years without engraving fear in his constituents soul. 

I guess at the end of the day, you have your opinion about Gadhafi and I have mine. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

 Again, I apologize if I came across as rude or condescending. But after reading some of peoples’ comments on here, my defense mechanism was in full gear.

Hey… stop second-thinking your remarks. Re-evaluate, re-assess, re-consider based on new information perhaps, but you spoke your mind well based on waaay more knowledge than most of the angry or less than informed one-liners that are toss out based on the media cloud of dis-information.

In a sense, a certain degree of control has to be a reality in leading any government… otherwise, every brain dead jerk or wise-assed political wannabe with a gun would try to take over your nation. I’m afraid you’ve just been shielded from some of the less than pleasant truths about what must be done to protect the governmental system as it is put forth by a “leader”.

The uprising itself in Libya was a monumental crime. The massive majority of the Libyan citizenry didn’t even know it was happening until it came down their streets. It was a rag-tag bunch of paid mercenaries who served as cannon fodder just long enough for the media to perpetuate the latest myth’s about Ghaddafi to garner unfounded public support for his deposal, and for the big global corporations to finance the war machine to take him down before he threatened the almighty (but failing) US Dollar.

It’s been interesting… thanks for agreeing to disagree – I can always live with that sorf of social compromise… especially when taking away more than I came with.

Cheers,

Toppling dictatorships.. yes of course. If you are a cop, be a good cop. Nothing worse than a dirty cop.

Toppling dictatorships.. yes of course. If you are a cop, be a good cop. Nothing worse than a dirty cop.

In this day and age, there is no left and there is no right… there is only corruption, and those terms are merely used as fodder to keep the public divided, confused, and incapable of uniting long enough to fix the problems.

I would be inclined to believe that the whole “rebellion” charade was started by the CIA before managing to obtain the support of the UN in order to bring in the big guns.  And the reason, was that Ghaddafi wanted to stop trading his oil in worthless American dollars.  He had already held two major conferences on moving Africa to the Gold Denar, finding substantial support.  No matter who pulled the trigger (if he is actually dead), it is indeed a crime to have allowed this to happen to a man who led his country from poverty into progress for 42 years. I tend to agree with Putin, who the heck gave the UN the right to have Ghaddafi killed?

You do realize that the US did not take Ghaddfi out and we as a nation have no say in what pictures are released by those who did right? 

yes

Gaddafi was a toppled dictator. Most arab muslims are being ruled by dictators and can relate to the rebels. When they see this footage, they shed no tears. UBL on the other hand was a “ideological” leader to a lot of “Muslims” who was assassinated by the “infidels”. The White House made a wise decision not to showcase the assassination. Even Al Qaida confirmed his death. What good would it accomplish other than fuel more hatred. 

I

So you are saying that the banks ordered the White house not to release the footage. And that Al Qaida is a CIA production. And you expect me to intelligently debate your argument ??

Junk that link. It makes you look less intelligent. 

But just for kicks: CIA training Osama is common knowledge. Tell me something I don’t know.

It was not al Qaida that they produced. They built up the Mujahedeen to become a force to be reckoned with. Some of the Mujahedeen returned home and become productive citizens. Some became Al Qaida members and some become war lords in Afghanistan and helped the U.S chase the Taliban who also were Mujahedeen. Al Qaida did not exist until late 89. Here is the run down on Al Qaeda which is also common knowledge, but I think you ignore.

-U.S entices both Iran and Iraq to go at it for 8 years, supplies both parties with weapons and intelligence.
-After 8 years of war, Iraq is indebted to its neck and relies on oil production to pay its debtors.
-U.S encourages Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to increase production of oil consequently dropping oil prices worldwide.
-Iraq is unable to make much return on its oil due to the lower market price.
-Kuwait starts pressuring Iraq into satisfying its debt.
-U.S ambassador A.Glaspie assures Saddam that the Iraq-Kuwait crises are not the U.S’s ‘business’
-Iraq invades Kuwait which prior to the British imperialism was a part of southern Iraq.
-U.S asks for permission from Saudi Arabia to set up military bases on it’s Holy land. 
-Osama gets all pissed off about the infidels setting foot on the land of Mecca. He rallies some lunatics. Uses Wahabism as religious ideology and Voila Al Qaeda is open for membership.

You assume that I am brainwashed by American mainstream media. An assumption that makes you sound even less intelligent. 

Gaddafi did not lead for 42 years. Simply because he is not a leader. And you are wrong, Gaddafi was a problem since 69, because he was a big fan of Jamel Abd Ennasser and a huge believer in Pan Arabism, which would have unified the Arab countries under 1 flag and 1 goal. Which would have translated into more serious threats against Israel. We all know the U.S  government -or the banks as you call it- would not have allowed it.

So much for the brainwashing of msm. . 

To be clear, I took offence at the brainwashing comment, since I don’t even watch T.V. As for Gaddafi being a leader. The guy terrorized his people for 42 years. He ruled by fear. He kept his people uneducated and impoverished. With all the oil that Libya sits on and the merely 3  Million people he has to feed. Libya could have been a heaven on earth. It’s a shame.

I was born much much later than 69. And you may care less what he thought about Israel. U.S however does care a lot about what any leader think of Israel. That is why he was on the radar since 69. Not because of the recent Petro Euro RT Putin rhetoric.

Thank you for serving our country. As I see you are much older than I am, I regret my over abrasive tone. 

Sorry… after all that, I missed your question.

<>

I’m implying that there WAS NO footage. 

So you are saying that the banks ordered the White house not to release the footage. And that Al Qaida is a CIA production. And you expect me to intelligently debate your argument ??

Junk that link. It makes you look less intelligent. 

But just for kicks: CIA training Osama is common knowledge. Tell me something I don’t know.

It was not al Qaida that they produced. They built up the Mujahedeen to become a force to be reckoned with. Some of the Mujahedeen returned home and become productive citizens. Some became Al Qaida members and some become war lords in Afghanistan and helped the U.S chase the Taliban who also were Mujahedeen. Al Qaida did not exist until late 89. Here is the run down on Al Qaeda which is also common knowledge, but I think you ignore.

-U.S entices both Iran and Iraq to go at it for 8 years, supplies both parties with weapons and intelligence.
-After 8 years of war, Iraq is indebted to its neck and relies on oil production to pay its debtors.
-U.S encourages Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to increase production of oil consequently dropping oil prices worldwide.
-Iraq is unable to make much return on its oil due to the lower market price.
-Kuwait starts pressuring Iraq into satisfying its debt.
-U.S ambassador A.Glaspie assures Saddam that the Iraq-Kuwait crises are not the U.S’s ‘business’
-Iraq invades Kuwait which prior to the British imperialism was a part of southern Iraq.
-U.S asks for permission from Saudi Arabia to set up military bases on it’s Holy land. 
-Osama gets all pissed off about the infidels setting foot on the land of Mecca. He rallies some lunatics. Uses Wahabism as religious ideology and Voila Al Qaeda is open for membership.

You assume that I am brainwashed by American mainstream media. An assumption that makes you sound even less intelligent. 

Gaddafi did not lead for 42 years. Simply because he is not a leader. And you are wrong, Gaddafi was a problem since 69, because he was a big fan of Jamel Abd Ennasser and a huge believer in Pan Arabism, which would have unified the Arab countries under 1 flag and 1 goal. Which would have translated into more serious threats against Israel. We all know the U.S  government -or the banks as you call it- would not have allowed it.

So much for the brainwashing of msm. . 

Give the assault thing a break… take a chill pill. Name ANY American msm outlet that isn’t issued daily talking points by the Pentagon, and doesn’t serve the will of the NWO and Khazarian bankers. RT comes closer to imparting truth than most.

The “White” House didn’t do anything… except what they were told to do by the New World Order (insert the name of your favorite bank instead, if you like).  Can you validate your assertions if it weren’t for the brainwashing you have absorbed from the American mainstream media?  Al Qaeda confirmed his death ?!?!   What you’re actually implying by saying that, is that the CIA confirmed his death… since Al Qaeda is a product of the CIA.   http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0228

But we’re talking about Ghaddafi, a man who led for 42 years - and although Clinton put a smart bomb through the bedroom window of one of his vacation houses, really hasn’t been considered a problem until he started to shun the almighty American dollar.  Then, apparently, we’re supposed to believe what ever we are told by the US MSM ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuqZfaj34nc 

Gaddafi was a toppled dictator. Most arab muslims are being ruled by dictators and can relate to the rebels. When they see this footage, they shed no tears. UBL on the other hand was a “ideological” leader to a lot of “Muslims” who was assassinated by the “infidels”. The White House made a wise decision not to showcase the assassination. Even Al Qaida confirmed his death. What good would it accomplish other than fuel more hatred. 

I

Bullshit dumbass.  It was French air and American drones that put the convey to flames.  Col. Gaddafi survived the air assault and went to cover in a roadside drainpipe.  It was there that the ground forces of the AL-quada opposition (Those who Obongo supports and who are our enemies currently killing our soldiers in theater) summarily executed him on the spot.
I am no friend to Gaddafi, but neither am I a friend to Obongo the Marxist usurper and traitor.  I envision his end to be similar. God willing.

BTW, there are a bunch of folks that the media has convinced that nothing happened at all…..some on the street & coffee shop interviews were “drunk Mexican” believers of media story

very very scary

The guy has probably been well out of the country… long gone, vamoosed, skeedadled, vamanosed…. since the fall of Tripoli, or even shortly after the UN (America and England) started the heavy bombing and what was coming down became obvious.  The media will tell you what you are supposed to believe and what you are supposed to talk about.  Ever wonder why it’s so hard to get any news from the “Axis of Evil” countries… and why those countries seem to all have moved off of the US dollar, or want to move off? 

Actually that would be a coward act. He should have died as a fighter. But hey, the modern time dictators that I can think of. Died either in their bed or like the cowards they were, after years bravado rhetoric. None , who I can think of, died aiming a gun at their killers.

If anything, I am glad that this wave of dictator toppling did not happen in the nineties or soon after 9/11. At this time, the majority of muslims see through Al Qaida’s agenda. They saw the oppression in the Taliban days, The Bhutto assassination… I don’t see them to be so eager to vote for an Islamic state as they could have been few years ago. I sure hope not. 

ReREAD my comment please: “I don’t see them to be SO EAGER to vote for an islamic state AS they COULD HAVE BEEN few years ago”. Don’t chop up my quote and run with it….

What’s happening in Egypt is normal. Few extremists trying to make noise. It does not speak for the rest of the 80 Million people. Both Egypt and Tunisia are preparing for elections. Show me one islamic state that was ELECTED by the people ??? What makes you think that the majority are eager to vote for an Islamic state ? is it the sporadic showcasing of fundamentalists in the streets of Cairo and Tunis ??? Look at what happened in Pakistan. A country which contains, within its borders, the highest number of die hard fundamentalists. At day D they voted for : Bhutto’s Husband Mr 10%. In 2008 Bhutto, the wife, was assassinated by those who were pushing for an Islamic State. I’m curious, Just give me one example for the basis of argument. That will make one assume the majority of the people in Egypt or Tunisia are eager to vote for an Islamic State.Caps only served emphasis, since my earlier comment was misconstrued.

If anything, I am glad that this wave of dictator toppling did not happen in the nineties or soon after 9/11. At this time, the majority of muslims see through Al Qaida’s agenda. They saw the oppression in the Taliban days, The Bhutto assassination… I don’t see them to be so eager to vote for an Islamic state as they could have been few years ago. I sure hope not. 

Spew your shit to the relatives of the people who were blown out of the sky over Locherbie Scotland, jackass.

….and – just out of morbid curiosity – are you a (ron)paulistinian or a palestinian?
Why do you want to shit on the ONLY truly civilized nation in the Middle East?

Among the 20 or so additional spelling and grammatical errors, I do want to point out the Israel is not a person; it’s an entity.  And, I agree with TouchStone.  Your blame of Israel is about as misguided as your grasp of English.